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Post by Motley the Mercenary on Jun 28, 2003 0:17:46 GMT -5
that was one problem i had with the DA. harry didn't have a way to show them how to use their patroni in case of a real attack. probably one reason amelia bones was so shocked was because it's one thing to make a pretty animal floaty thing come out of your wand, but another thing to make it do that when the happy memories you make it with are getting sucked out of your head
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Post by coldmercurywitch on Jun 28, 2003 0:25:12 GMT -5
I wonder if patroni can take a human form...
Just cos I was thinking. Lupin's happy thoughts would be able him just being human and not being animal like in any way...
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Post by Motley the Mercenary on Jun 28, 2003 0:35:01 GMT -5
without meaning to say too much here... double or nothing it's actually a bear-like dog... *significant look*
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Dawney
Slytherin Alumni
We won't say that we're better; its just that we're less worse. -Arrogant Worms
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Post by Dawney on Jun 28, 2003 20:51:38 GMT -5
I didn't think Patroni were modled after what your happy thought was, I thought they took the form of something significant to you in your life. Like, Harry never knew his father took the shape of a stag in his animagus, so it couldn't have been his happy memory.
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Post by coldmercurywitch on Jun 29, 2003 8:57:17 GMT -5
No, but having his father beside him was one of happy thoughts, and the stag, being his father's animagi form, is like Harry having his father beside him and protecting him. So wouldn't that be counted as being modeled on a happy thought?
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Post by Sphi on Jun 29, 2003 23:44:22 GMT -5
I never thought of it like that. Look at Hermione's and Cho's Patroni. They don't seem to have anything to do with happy thoughts, although I could be wrong. I think the Patroni just take a form that best represents the person. Harry is very much taking after his father, so that's why his Patronus is a stag, among other reasons. And like we were discussing earlier, Hermione is clever and resourceful like an otter.
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Post by Will on Jun 30, 2003 15:49:40 GMT -5
Erm, sorry to cut in. This might be a bit off topic, but I wanted to see what you think about this.
I was just re-reading this in book five:
Was that really a happy memory? Or maybe it means that Hermione and Ron's faces were the happy memories? Could you cast this charm by using just the need to save someone? Or like Harry had did...The realization that he might not see his friends again?
Does this even make sense? I could be wrong about all this... Tell me what you think?
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Post by En on Jul 1, 2003 10:34:19 GMT -5
I was thinking it was the next logical stage in the evolution of what makes Harry happy.
Remember how at the beginning of his lessons, he thought of stuff like quidditch, which created weak patroni? And then he started thinking about being able to live with Sirius, which was half that he cared for Sirius and wanted a parent, and half wanting to get away from the Dursleys. And that made stronger patroni. A dash of self-confidence, and he could make one that could ward off hundreds of dementors.
Now he's fifteen, and he's a bit older and more mature, and what makes him happy isn't personal achievement or gratification, or getting away from his annoying family. What makes him happy is that he has two really good friends, two really good friendships. People he can count on and care for, even when he's at odds with them over details like the fact that their letters are devoid of useful information. His friendships with them are complex, deep and fulfilling. That this makes him happy is proof that he's growing up, and growing up into a good man.
Did he mean to save them? I think the way he was talking, what he was worried about was not seeing them again. But I think that wanting to save them wouldn't be out of keeping with what he was feeling. It was love. And sometimes love is about protecting, just like sometimes it's about not wanting to lose someone, or wanting to be near them.
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fico the fur
Hufflepuff Alumni
Why'd you say "halleluia" if it means nothin' to ya'?
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Post by fico the fur on Jul 5, 2003 14:38:15 GMT -5
So what do you all think your patronus would be? I mean, people often have their animagi in their sigs, but a patronus is a different story. I'm just curious what you think you would have.
Um... Maybe I'm just slower on the uptake, but I didn't notice anything in the other books that mentioned Hermione/otter or Cho/swan. But I have to re-read them all now, anyway, so I can be on the watch for it. I'll even read the UK versions, if you like. (And if Rue lets me borrow them. )
And yeah, I thought people were just surprised that Harry could make a distinct stag. Didn't Lupin say that a lot of full-grown wizards couldn't manage a proper Patronus? The only thing that got me about that was, then people in the DA go on to make them without all that much trouble. I mean, I know they worked really hard and all, but if a lot of full-grown, experienced witches and wizards can't do it...
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Post by En on Jul 5, 2003 15:05:43 GMT -5
Sort of makes you wonder what their happy thoughts are, doesn't it?
*wry look* Wonder if it was that they were doing something really good -- and really opposite to Umbridge. Bittersweet happy thought, that.
*shrug* My patronus would be a horse. I don't relate to the actual animal horse all that much; I mean, I'm a passable rider and I appreciate what horses can do, but I don't have any special feelings about them. Well, that's not true -- my family was very bound up with horses for years, and with a pretty 50/50 mixture of good and bad effects, because we were good at raising and training them, but the main horse guy very clearly valued the horses over his kids, and... yeah, six generations later we're still feeling the effects of that. But anyway, in terms of the Chinese Zodiac, I'm so horse it's not even funny -- and in terms of the Western concept of "horse," it embodies a lot of what I have come to value in people. Eh. Yeah, it just feels right. Maybe partly because of the ambiguity.
What would yours be?
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fico the fur
Hufflepuff Alumni
Why'd you say "halleluia" if it means nothin' to ya'?
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Post by fico the fur on Jul 5, 2003 15:21:06 GMT -5
Geh. I just realized I had only read half the thread when I posted that. But okay, I'm all caught up now.
And you are so incredibly Huff-oriented right now, it's not even funny.
*nervous shrug* I don't know. I'm, like, really good at self-analyzing myself, right? So I can easily recognize (with a bit of introspection) that I'm a Slytherin at Hogwarts, right? But, like... I have no clue what my patronus would be, or what my animagus would be, or anything like that. I can list off the animals I feel I relate to, but I don't feel like I relate to any of them really strongly, not strongly enough to stop something from sapping my energy and life-force. I can self-analyze, but I can't self-compare. I get too caught up in all the little stuff.
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Post by En on Jul 5, 2003 15:28:05 GMT -5
Yeah, I know, it's starting to make me feel lopsided... but... not bad?
Well, brainstorm then. Tell me what you relate to and I'll try to give you a second opinion?
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fico the fur
Hufflepuff Alumni
Why'd you say "halleluia" if it means nothin' to ya'?
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Post by fico the fur on Jul 5, 2003 16:07:42 GMT -5
No, not bad. Kind of cute. Kind of gets me really curious about where you'll end up with it. Really gets me thinking about all the Huff stuff I have to think about, so I like it for that. *shrugs* Not bad at all.
*sighs* Fine. Go and make me think hard when I had been having a relaxing afternoon.
Okay. I've already thought a lot about what animals I relate to because of something entirely different from this. So I'll list those off and my reasoning for them.
Deer (read: a doe) / Dolphin: we're raised in a certain environment, and that greatly effects who we become, right? My mom reminds me a lot of dolphins and does. Especially because of one of the songs on that tape I lent you, about the three-legged doe. And dolphins because they're all gentle and community-oriented and smart.
(I had one for my dad, but I haven't thought about this in a few months, so I forgot. )
Wolves / Werewolves. I wanted to be a hermit and I wanted to be a werewolf. These two things were inextricable connected in my mind. I couldn't be one unless I were the other. (This is all because of a book I read.) I like how wolves are pack-animals, but how they can also live alone, even if it is much harder. I always felt kind of like a werewolf. Kind of... set apart for something I couldn't help anyway. I like how they have power, but they don't always use it. I like how they have humanity, but not all the time. I really like how they don't actually exist IRL, so they're very open to interpretation.
Dingo: They always felt really... foreign. Foreign word, foreign place. Now, I like how I don't actually know anything about them. I researched them a few months back, but that research is tangled up with what I believed about them for years. Now, I don't know what's true and what was the twisted perception of a little kid. What I remember, though I don't know what's true: they're half dog, half fox. Live in Australia. Colored sort of fox-ish, though more brown. Tails longer than fox's but bushier than dog's. Big ears. Smallish. Make a weird yipping sound. I liked them because they reminded me of Fantastic Mr.Fox as well as of dogs. I'm not attached to one or the other especially, but I liked the idea of a combination. Again, they were sort of set apart because they were different. They could join either the dogs or the foxes, but they would never really fit in. Or they could make it on their own.
Erm... Vampires: I've wanted to be one for years. I read most of that book, the first in the series with Lestat and Louis? *is having trouble remembering* Written by that woman; she did a whole series. Anyway, Louis becomes a vampire via Lestat (I know I've got that name wrong), but he doesn't like killing people. Instead, he lives off of rats. I'm completely a night-person, right? I'm really pale. I actually don't like sunlight. Again (can we see a theme? ) I would be set apart from people. But one of the things I really liked about vampires was how... how I could still get close to people. I would just have to have a lot of self-control. I'm really fond of self-control. It's something I'm good at. I liked the idea of having something that would really test my self-control, as well as show that I've got it, even if no one else knew but me. I liked the idea of being able to live forever, but you could also kill yourself off if you wanted. And I wanted to know if I would have a soul to go to heaven with when I finally died.
I also thought of something that flies. Maybe an owl, maybe a bat (I'm about as blind as one, and I thought echo-location was way too cool for words), maybe a peregrin falcon (they dive so damn fast). *shrugs* I would really love to fly, but I never really thought it defined me, if you know what I mean. So I think the flying animals are more wishful thinking than anything else.
*thinks* Those are the ones I remember. But I've changed a lot, so I'll think some more and get back to you if there are any new ones. But honestly, the one I always felt most akin to was the vampire.
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Calavera Diablos
Ravenclaw Alumni
Draws grown men wearing underpants outside their trousers
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Post by Calavera Diablos on Jul 5, 2003 16:36:30 GMT -5
Eug- Do you have an affinity to a certain animal that has remained consistent throughout your life?
I view Patroni as the equivalent to the Native American familiars or animal spirit guides. I saw you mention Wolves, so have you been fascinated by them since childhood or had dreams about them? Wolves symbolize Wisdom, Spirituality(having strong connections to the Great Creator and the spiritual planes), Intelligence, and the importance of familial/brotherly bonds; they are seen as the great teachers and brothers to the Native Americans.
I don't think your familiar could be a vampire, they're not natural creatures. It isn't so much what you want to be or what you think is cool, but discovering your patroni would really require some mulling over your own personality traits, strong and weak.
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fico the fur
Hufflepuff Alumni
Why'd you say "halleluia" if it means nothin' to ya'?
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Post by fico the fur on Jul 5, 2003 18:39:07 GMT -5
Geh, call me Eugenides, or just Gen. Eug is so... Eugh!
Yeah, I was trying to think of things I relate to rather than just like. That's why I said I probably wouldn't be a creature that flies. And I'm definitely not a creature that swims. I would enjoy the situation of being a vampire. Like... like if I loved someone, I would have to choose whether or not to discuss making hir a vampire also, so that they would have pseudo-immortality with me. Vampires just make sense to me like that.
Thing is, if we're talking about the Harry Potter world, then vampires are natural creatures, right? Like, they're an occurance in that world, even if they aren't in ours. So I think that having a vampire patronus might work, even if that turns out to not be my particular patronus.
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