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Post by Lianne on Jun 14, 2005 19:55:05 GMT -5
See, i think that if you arent able to become pregnant that you shouldnt become pregnant, and that if you are a homo sexual couple that you should adopt 
I fear that this stuff will lead to worse things that i feel are immoral such as cloning etc. i just don't believe that it should be done...
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Post by KoNeko on Jun 14, 2005 22:45:58 GMT -5
*lightbulb* Hey Robin, I was wondering, if you and Karen adopted a child from, say, Sweden or somewhere where it was legally and socially accepted to have homosexual adoptions, would it be a problem recognising that adoption in the US? I mean, if the child is already recognised as yours and Karen's, would you still need to go through all the same paperwork over in the US? I'm just trying to find ways of reducing those legal fees!!
Of course, there are also a lot of people out there who want to have "their" own child, i.e. like a biological child because there's the whole notion of bloodlines, etc. I'm not personally one to buy that and I reckon that anyone who is capable of giving a child a loving, nurturing environment regardless of gender orientation or preference should be allowed to adopt... and if they can give birth to and raise their own biological kids up in the same environment, that's fine by me as well. 
As for cloning... I don't know why you'd want to have a child who was a clone of you, that would seriously be disturbing.  But I can see that the risk is probably there, but until such time as this becomes physically and financially viable for the general public, I think that IVF is still the biggest point in contention. I just don't see why people are so opposed to it. It is probably more unnatural for a 90-year-old man to be using viagra to procreate, even if that process is "natural", or something.
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Post by Robin_Sprouts on Jun 15, 2005 9:30:42 GMT -5
My boss and I do a fair amount of adoption work so I'm pretty familiar with it. Unfortunately, we would both have to adopt (separately) here in the US even though the International adoption would be recognized. It really sucks - folks adopt an international child, only to get him or her home and realize that they need another attorney in whichever state they are in and they have to go through the entire procedure again. In our case, it might be simplified slightly if we adopted from a country where we would be recognized as a couple but, that would still mean three adoption cases (one international, one for Karen, one for myself in the US) rather than one adoption case if Karen has a biological child.
Lianne - what if I were to have sex with a man (or Karen were to) with the understadning that he would sign away his parental rights so that Karen and I could raise the baby together as a couple? Essentially, that is what we will be doing - just not the sex part. How would that fit into your view of morality?
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Calavera Diablos
Ravenclaw Alumni
Draws grown men wearing underpants outside their trousers
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Calavera Diablos on Jun 15, 2005 10:08:02 GMT -5
Robin- You'd have to find a good male friend to donate the sperm. A stranger might suddenly decide not to give up his rights at the last minute, then you'd have more problems on your hands. Adoption is still pretty sticky for anyone. My parents had to wait for two years until they could adopt me and they were considered strange since they were white parents adopting an asian child. Either way, the process is going to be difficult. |
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Post by Robin_Sprouts on Jun 15, 2005 12:08:23 GMT -5
Actually we already have a donor. It is a good friend that I trust implicitly. Luckily, here in the judicial district we live in in Iowa, folks like us have a little easier time than others do!
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Post by Lianne on Jun 15, 2005 22:58:54 GMT -5
i agree with sperm donors, its too bad that it cant be from both of you, i gues si see your stand on that, and it is awesome that you have someone so awesome that you can trust.
I am sorry if i offended you. I do believe in adoption though, but at the same time, if i were to have kids, i would want them to be like me and my partner (who is male anyways) so i do understand that.
I dont think it is immoral really what you said, personally i would prefer my partner not to sleep with someone else
but a donor would be great
I dunno. i think im digging myself a hole. im not good at wording things the way i want them to sound 
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Post by Robin_Sprouts on Jun 16, 2005 8:59:42 GMT -5
I wasn't offended - I just wanted to make you think about what you believed. Most people make statements (me included) without really thinking them all the way through.
Neither of us are going to sleep with anyone else - we're using the "turkey baster" thing that Koko referred to earlier.
I also strongly believe in adoption and, if it weren't for the legal hassles and additional attorney fees, that would be our first choice. We honestly just can't afford to go that route.
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Post by Lianne on Jun 16, 2005 19:36:12 GMT -5
it sucks how they complain about people not adopting, and they wont let two (and i assume you are very ) decent people adopt! Who cares what gender you are and all that. I think anyone should have the right to adopt if they can make good parents
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Post by Robin_Sprouts on Jun 17, 2005 8:19:13 GMT -5
Thank you, Lianne - I agree with you whole-heartedly. I don't know if you heard about it but a couple of years ago, there was a big issue here in the states about children under the protection of the human services department of their state. In particular, the state of Florida had many children in their protection that they just "lost"! The state was overburdened and was unable to spend adequate time and money watching over the children in its foster care system. This is the same state however, that at nearly the same time as this crisis came to light, made it illegal for gays and lesbians to adopt in their state! This is craziness!
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Post by Leia Skye on Jun 17, 2005 9:56:31 GMT -5
This post was SPAM, so please go on with the discussion. As much as people may not appreciate being ignored, it is not possible to get every single post replied to personally. And if the discussion has gone on, odds are your post was indeed read. You probably can't miss a post and know what everyone's talking about, especially if they are referring to that post.
So please, let's all be kind to each other, and try to keep our tempers at a low level.
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Post by Lianne on Jun 17, 2005 20:51:30 GMT -5
umm, i read your post, i didnt see anything that you asked or any questions or opinions to answer...
As much as i <3 ya, i dont see why that was called for
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Post by KoNeko on Jun 18, 2005 2:40:57 GMT -5
Leia, I know you've deleted yourself and I'm sorry that you feel that you were being ignored, but , as you know, it's not like we always respond to every post made personally. Is it not enough that you have contributed to this discussion? I'm with Li on this one. That wasn't called for at all and even though we don't overtly acknowledge it, you should know that we are grateful for your contribution.
*coughs*
Um, back on topic?
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Post by Lianne on Jun 22, 2005 9:36:17 GMT -5
...
Would it be okay for you to adopt a child and pretend you are a single and want a child? and then later be with karen? like to they HAVE to know? or would they take the kid away if they found out?
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Post by Robin_Sprouts on Jun 22, 2005 10:35:27 GMT -5
They probably wouldn't take the child away but, during the adoption process, they do several home studies of your home and your capability to raise a child. If I were to "pretend" I'm single, I would have to kick Karen out for those interviews and make sure that there was no sign of her living in the house. Then, down the line when I "added" Karen to my life, we would have to do the entire process again so that Karen would be a legal parent. If only one of us is a legal parent, the other has no rights to obtain medical care, sign forms at school, talk to teachers and, most importantly, take custody of the child should something happen to the other. Although I know that this idea supports your belief in adoption, it would be either too risky or more expensive than just adopting straight out.
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Post by Lianne on Jun 22, 2005 12:50:49 GMT -5
yeah i see your point now... thats such a hassle
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But I can see that the risk is probably there, but until such time as this becomes physically and financially viable for the general public, I think that IVF is still the biggest point in contention. I just don't see why people are so opposed to it. It is probably more unnatural for a 90-year-old man to be using viagra to procreate, even if that process is "natural", or something.
