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Post by j.s.p. on May 15, 2003 2:42:52 GMT -5
For Some reason, I feel more that Huff=ocean and Gryff=lake, though I have no good reason to believe this.
There are also four oceans...
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Calantha
Gryffindor Alumni
My name is Luck, this is my song, I happened by when you were gone
Posts: 4,493
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Post by Calantha on May 16, 2003 19:34:33 GMT -5
Hmm...so I was thinking about this...and I saw Hufflepuff as more of a brook...because it can be so sympathetic...and true and loyal in a sense. And I guess I just feel like it can bring the Hufflepuff side out in people.
The ocean I can either see as Slytherin or as Gryffindor. I guess my reasoning...is because the ocean a lot of times goes hand in hand with dreams and such and there is this cruel side of the ocean sometimes...but at the same time I can see it as being Gryffindor, because you've got to be brave to face the ocean and it sort of can be like with chasing your dreams and that takes bravery and such...
And then I could also see Slytherin as a river because it does a lot to reach where it is going...
And then Ravenclaw I can see as raindrops...but I can also see it as a lake...and that is more of a feeling that it spawns from...
I don't know... I think my final things would be: Hufflepuff: Brook or stream Slytherin: River Gryffindor: Ocean Ravenclaw: Lake/Bay
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Post by Will on May 16, 2003 20:54:37 GMT -5
I like your reasoning, Calantha.
I wasn't sure why I placed Huff with lake and Raven with rain...
I think Slytherin is a river/stream or anything like that beacuse it is always moving to the bigger and better things...Like the bigger body of water.
The ocean felt like Gryffindor because it does have that brave face.
As for the four oceans. I'll have to think more about that one.
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Post by En on May 17, 2003 11:50:10 GMT -5
Hey, Willow... Actually, your Huff-lake made a lot of sense to me, because Hufflepuff is full of potential energy, you know? Like a lake with an outlet that could turn wild if there is a flood... and also, lakes are calm, they stay in one place and (at least most of them) stay around a certain level. Animals depend on them, and so do cities, to stay clean and full. And they're usually quiet, and people go to them to relax.
As for Ravenclaw as rain, that made sense too; because of the language thing. Language -- wit, wisdom, the whole bit -- can go almost everywhere, can be hard or soft, can be heavy or light, can cloud your vision, can make you feel cold, can make your world look better, can make things grow, can contain hidden danger (like a hailstorm). Language is variable. So rain, which is the most variable form of water, seemed sensible to me.
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Calantha
Gryffindor Alumni
My name is Luck, this is my song, I happened by when you were gone
Posts: 4,493
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Post by Calantha on May 17, 2003 16:16:19 GMT -5
Hmm... So I guess I just thought of Ravenclaw as more of a lake or pond because it is often a place where people can get away to think and such...and like, take Authurian legend and the Lady of the Lake...she's wise, comes out of the lake and collects the sword. I just thought I'd say that since I didn't really give a reason last time other than the feeling it gives me. I don't know though.
So how would you go about sorting...oh, I don't know, hail, rain, sleet, and snow?
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Post by j.s.p. on May 17, 2003 16:27:02 GMT -5
Sleet=Slytherin Hail=Gryffindor Rain=Ravenclaw Snow=Hufflepuff
So...Sleet is Slytherin...is the most miserable type of weather to be in (;D)...it's cold and wet and inbetween the other sort of weather...it is insidious in a lot of ways and many people don't like it. ( ) Hail is Gryffindor because I've always pictured a Gryff mentality to beat something over the head, winning by just pounding it out, by being brave. Rain and Ravenclaw...much of the same reasons as above. More quite, contemplative, but too much of it.... Snow=Hufflepuff, probably because that was the last one. Many people like snow, but too much if it it can become deadly...like the potential energy En mentioned.
I still think of Huff as ocean because, to me, a Huff is like a rock, the one who stands up and weathers the storm...like the purely defensive player...not much offense, but damned if you're going to get past 'im.
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Post by lumennremirath on May 18, 2003 17:12:07 GMT -5
I was thinking last night about the four of The Princess Bride. If you have other ideas, feel free to add. Well, here goes:
For some reason, this just seemed to fit. But it was kinda hard at first to decide if either Inigo or Fezzik was a Gryff. However, because of his [uniquely unusual] strength, Inigo was able to avenge his father's death. (after twenty years, I might add) He also was a very loyal character; he did, after all, go to save Westley. Fezzik is probably one of the most righteous giants I've ever come across, not counting Hagrid. I know that he was Mr. Inconceivable at first, but Westley kinda nudged him in the right direction. Once he started on that little path, he really was a good fella. Slow-witted, maybe, but good all the same. ;DWestley just strikes me as the ideal Raven. He's very smart and witty, but with the kind of humour that I wouldn't be surprised to hear come from the mouth of a Raven. He also has the ability to guide others -- perhaps in an abstract way. But hey, it worked, right?Although it kind of surprised me when I was sorting this out, Buttercup is a Slyth, but not the typical one. She does have great faith in Westley (duh), but let's not forget she used to be rather bossy with him. Not to mention she has unconditional, undying love for her dear Westley (yet another duh).Does this sound right? I'm completely open to other ideas, since I'm not the best at this kind of thing.
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Post by j.s.p. on May 18, 2003 17:43:33 GMT -5
Dangit! You stole my idea. I wrote this out and was waiting until I had a chance to revise it, but I guess I must throw it out so you don't steal all my thunder :
"The Princess Bride" as a Slytherin Text
Introduction A standard of children's cinema for the last decade and a half—at least where I'm from—though the written text it derives from (by William Goldman) is more satirical and less child-like. Both word and film are worthwhile, though. For some odd reason, I've been thinking about this film and have come to the conclusion—or, perhaps more appropriately, I have discovered that this film is a primer text for a Slytherin mentality. Let me begin by discussion some of the characters in the film. There are four "bad" characters that our hero, the Man in Black, must face: (1) Inigo Montoya; (2) Fezzik; (3) Vizzini; and (4) Prince Humperdinck. Like any good foursome, these characters can be 'sorted' into the four Hogwarts Houses. Consider:
(a) Inigo Montoya A very simplified version of his back story: Inigo is a child of sword maker. One day, a Six-Fingered Man commissions a special sword from Inigo's father (for, you see, having an extra finger throws off the balance of a normal sword). Inigo's father makes the sword, but the Six-Fingered Man only pays 1/10 what he said he would. Inigo's father protests, the Six-Fingered Man kills him. Inigo challenges the Six-Fingered Man, but is no match—for his troubles, Inigo receives a scar on each cheek. Inigo dedicates the next twenty odd years to studying swordsmanship in hopes of revenge. If there is one underlying theme, one underlying value to Inigo's entire life from his father's death onward, it would be loyalty. First, it is a loyalty to his father, but this gently morphs—as these things often do through time—into a loyalty to his cause. At one point, Inigo remarks that he doesn't know what he will do after he finds the Six-Fingered Man; the farthest he has thought out is the death mantra: "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." Inigo Montoya is a Gryffandor.
(b) Fezzik Unlike Inigo, Fezzik's past doesn't affect much of his present actions, so the filmmakers (and I) do not discuss it. All that really is important is that, like Inigo, Fezzik is the best at what he does (wrestling) and has become bored with it, so he challenges himself by putting self-limitations (as does Inigo, when he fights the Man in Black with his non-dominate hand). The physical stature and strength of Fezzik is the visual indication of his Hufflepuff demenor. Fezzik works hard, and that's how he gets things done. After Vizzini's death, unlike Indigo who drinks, Fezzik goes back to work on a Brute Squad. As the film progresses, we find that Fezzik really is good hearted; even while fighting the Man in Black, we see this in his allowance of a fair fight (even the Man in Black knows that Fezzik could easily kill him).
(c) Vizzini The mastermind of Princess's kidnapping, Vizzini is a very intelligent Silcilian who calls Aristotle a simpleton. In his battle with the Man in Black, Vizzini doesn't use physical prowess like Fezzik, or manual dexterity like Inigo; instead, he uses his greatest asset—his wit, his mind. Only a Ravenclaw would do such a thing.
(d) Prince Humperdinck The real mastermind of the movie, the uber-villian warmonger that wishes the death of his fiancée and all that is righteous ("there is a shortage of perfect breasts in the world"). The power and ambition to do what is needed to achieve his goals are clear indications of his Slytherin personality.
The Plot Thickens But wait…I made the assertion in the title of this piece that The Princess Bride is a textbook for Slytherin wannabes. How then, can the Slytherin character lose? How can he be the main bad guy, while two of the other three "repent" and join the forces of good? The answer: in this paper, my claim is that the Man in Black also is Slytherin, but a different type than Prince Humperdinck. Notice that I have never referred to the Man in Black by his given name, Westley. This is conscious: while the Man in Black is Slytherin, Westley is more Gryffendor. By putting on the mask, Westley becomes an entirely different person. This will come into play later.
Slytherin Dominance Consider the ways that the Man in Black defeats the first three villains. Inigo: the Man in Black beats the best swordsman in the world…with a sword. Fezzik: the Man in Black defeats the strongest man in the world…with his bare hands. Vizzini: the Man in Black defeats the smartest man in the world…with his brains. Obviously, the Man in Black has some skillz in all these departments. But how is it reasonable that he can best the best at their own game—and three wildly different games? It is because the Man in Black is a Slytherin, and uses all available abilities. You see, Inigo is a damn fine swordsman. The Man in Black is good too, but not as good as Inigo. Same with Fezzik and Vizzini. The Man in Black's secret? The secret of all Slytherins? The Man in Black knows how to play the game. Inigo/Gryffendor wins by determination; Fezzik/Hufflepuff wins by hard-work; Vizzini/Ravenclaw wins by brains…but the Man in Black/Slytherin wins by strategy.
Slytherin vs. Slytherin It is telling that it takes the Man in Black the first half of the movie to best the first three villains—the other houses, but requires the second half to beat the Prince, a member of his own house. It shouldn't be hard to see why this is: the Man in Black has close to what Inigo, Fezzik, and Vizzini have, but has something more. But when it comes to the prince, the prince also has that something more. It's a battle among equals with the same weapons. Let us skip ahead to the final duel. The Prince suggests that they should fight to the death. The Man in Black counters with a fight to the pain. After describing how the Man in Black would slowly remove pieces of body from the Prince's…body…, the Man in Black, who has been laying down paralyzed all this time due to Max's cure (the Prince doesn't know this), raises his sword and says sternly "Drop your sword." The Prince does this, and is tied in a chair by the Princess. At this point, the Prince realizes that the Man in Black was bluffing, but there is nothing he can do about it. The Prince and the Man in Black, up to this point, had been fighting indirectly, but pitting strategy against strategy. This final battle is no different, except that the Man in Black's strategy finally wins out. How does it do this? This is an important question, as it deals with two different Slytherin types and, ultimately, which one is victorious and which one fails. The Prince represents the Slytherin that is what we might call "pure" Slytherin. He looks out only for himself and will do whatever seems at that moment to be in his best interest. Usually is works out for him, but in this case it didn't. The Man in Black is the Slytherin that is informed by the values of the other houses. He has loyalty (the Westley side), hard-work (the Dread Pirate Roberts side), and smarts (the ? side). The Man in Black doesn't win by the Slytherin strategy alone. No, he wins by appropriating the values and strengths of the others, and infusing it with strategy. Each of the other houses would achieve their ends easier if they used a Slytherin mentality, but then again, everybody can't be a Slytherin.
The Sappy End I guess that the point is, don't let being a Slytherin pigeon-hole you into one way of thinking. Think of Slytherin as a meta-style that informs the other house traits needed to accomplish your end. Like any other house, the Slytherin can be one dimension; to be a well-rounded person, like the Man in Black, other traits are quite valuable.
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fico the fur
Hufflepuff Alumni
Why'd you say "halleluia" if it means nothin' to ya'?
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Post by fico the fur on May 29, 2003 6:09:23 GMT -5
In the book Matilda by Roald Dahl, Matilda has three family members.
Mr Wormwood: The Ravenclaw. True, he's not the cleverest man on the face of the planet, but he does know some stuff. He came up with ways to sell those second-hand cars without getting caught for at least five years. On top of that, he planned ahead and was ready to go to Spain in case he did get caught. And using post-modern house theory, he's the one that talks about a great head of hair meaning a great brain underneath. ("Like Shakespeare, daddy?" "He was very brainy, was he?" "He was brilliant, daddy." "Had a great head of hair, did he?" "He was bald, daddy." "Stop talking nonsense!") He was always preoccupied with being brainy, and he wanted to be. He even accomplished it, to some degree.
Mrs Wormwood: The Slytherin. "You chose books, I chose looks. I have a nice house, a rich husband..." She decided what she wanted and she got it. How much more Slytherin do you get? Just because she didn't want power doesn't mean she wasn't ambitious. She just had very shallow ambitions.
Mike Wormwood: The Hufflepuff. Don't kill me for that. Listen, now: first off, we don't see much of the kid. Really only two scenes. one) When his dad comes in and has Mike add up his car-sales figures. Harry and Matilda get in a row, Mike says nothing. He isn't sure where his loyalties lie; isn't sure who to support; isn't sure if he should support one, if that means not supporting the other. Mike says nothing. two) When the parents pack off for Spain and let Matilda stay with Miss Honey. Mike goes with his parents. Mostly because he doesn't have anywhere else to go, partly because I don't think he would have wanted to leave them. As the car drives off, he waves to Matilda. Still loyal to her, even though they were never able to become close siblings.
Matilda Wormwood: The Gryffindor. In reaction to hearing what her father did to the cars: "But daddy! That's dishonest!" She bravely faces down the Trunchbull rather than be accused of something she didn't do. She's very concerned with what is right and what is not, and she will do what is right, as well as encourage those around her to do so. She helps Miss Honey. She does not question Miss Honey when she says she wants Matilda's parents' permission before taking care of her. Matilda understands that people have morals, and she will not stand in their way when they uphold them. Besides this, she's a gutsy kid who likes adventure.
Thoughts/comments?
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Jack, you make a very good case. *is thoroughly convinced*
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Post by En on Jun 3, 2003 15:57:00 GMT -5
Had this idea a while ago for "short and sweet" house mottoes:
Gryff: Get a grip Raven: Get a clue Slyth: Get ahead Huff: Get along
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Post by j.s.p. on Jun 9, 2003 11:57:45 GMT -5
What am I thinking? <--Geek.
1st base: Gryffindor 2nd base: Ravenclaw 3rd base: Hufflepuff Home Plate: Slytherin
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Post by aurora on Jun 23, 2003 22:22:20 GMT -5
I've been trying to think of a group of 4 for a while know so that I can add something into here, but you've thought up so many that it's hard to think of something new. So, don't ask where this came from, I haven't a clue, but... sesame street ;D ((yeah, i'm 4 years old))Elmo ~ Elmo's got the loyalty, friendships, and bravery downOscar the Grouch ~ Oscar is a Slytherin because, from what I can remember, he's pretty focused on himself. Most of what one would imagine Oscar would do, is for his own benefit - much like the Slytherins who will do anything to get their own goalBig Bird ~ Big Bird's all about the community, and all that he really wants to do is help people.Cookie Monster ~ The Ravens are like the Cookie Monster in the sense that, they'll find what they love ((Ravens love knowledge, the Cookie Monster loves cookies)) and try to get as much of it as they possibly can.((don't worry, my next one's going to be really good to make up for this :)
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Post by En on Jun 24, 2003 11:07:01 GMT -5
Wow, and Henson's Creature Shop even colour-coded them for your reference.
I think you're absolutely right, though. I was having a really hard time figuring out which blue one was like a Raven, but you're quite right. Heh. Oh, and here's another Cookie detail that proves your point: he's also the host of Monsterpiece Theatre, which is a very Raveny thing, don't you think?
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Post by lumennremirath on Jul 2, 2003 17:41:43 GMT -5
That's cool! I find it amusing I'm an Elmo. I don't remember if it was Nialle or my mum I was discussing with on this, but we were classifying the four hobbits of the Fellowship.... Pippin is our corageous Gryffindor! (heehee, that makes me happy) He's of the Neville variety; he's very hesitant about some things, but was it not Galadriel who said, "Do not fear, young Peregrin Took. You will find your courage."? I'm not sure if it's relevant, but he was the one who told Treebeard to go south. He was risking his and Merry's discovery, capture, torment and death to do so, even in the presence of Treebeard.Well, everybody knows who the Huff is of the group. It's a wee bit too obvious. That's right.... SAMWISE! He's not only Frodo's gardener, but he is very mothering for Frodo. He makes sure that his master/friend is warm, well-fed, and healthy. No wonder he's so loveable. ;DMerry is very clever, quick-witted, the typical Raven. But he is possibly the first [besides Frodo] who realizes what it could mean if their quest failed. He was the one who got the message through to Neville Pippin.... "There won't be a Shire, Pippin."Which leaves Frodo as the Slytherin. At first I wasn't so sure about it, but it makes sense. Although he's destroying the ring for the good of Middle Earth, he's also doing it to protect that which he loves most -- the Shire. Not to mention that in the end, he tried to claim the ring for his own -- it's a good thing Gollum prevented that from happening.Did I miss anything? Anything not make sense? *realises how silly she sounds and quiets herself*
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Glint
1st Year
'Ne te quaesiveris extra.'
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Post by Glint on Jul 24, 2003 1:31:33 GMT -5
What a delightful thread!
I would just like to add a point here that JKR seems to be moving in in this last book. Each of the four together create a fifth thing. The four houses together create Hogwarts. The personality types described by the houses are all aspects of human personality.
It seems that JKR is foreshadowing that the houses need to come together to deal with whatever doom is impending. As we look at the quadripartite aspects of the world, it might be useful to see what the pieces add up to. This might lead to lines of thought relating to how the four aspects of any given list of four lean on and balance each other.
So, here's my question to the list makers: Once the four parts of any list are set, what does that group add up to. I also wonder if we can make cases for the whole being greater than the parts.
(Here's a chance for you Slyth appologists to show how much weaker Hogwarts would be without the representation of the Slyth perspective.)
g.
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