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Post by hermoine on Nov 30, 2003 8:13:10 GMT -5
So this has got me thinking. That mysterious archway in the Ministry is quite dangerous. I mean Sirius just went through it and never came out.
Also, through it you can hear the voices of the people who died. What sort of thing is it actually?
Just thought, I'd get other people's views.
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Post by En on Nov 30, 2003 13:56:46 GMT -5
You know how loads of comic-book villains want to be immortal? Well, I think that's a natural thing for people, that they get curious about death and most don't want to die. So my bet is, some wizard found a way to open a gateway into the world of the dead, but it was terrible to look at -- or maybe just too beautiful to resist -- so someone hung a curtain over it. And now it's kept at the ministry to keep people from finding it by accident and going through. Probably people are studying to see if they can learn to talk to specific dead people through the veil, but it must be very dangerous, since it draws people in....
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Ceridwen
Gryffindor Alumni
Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense
Posts: 604
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Post by Ceridwen on Dec 1, 2003 5:12:06 GMT -5
It reminded me a lot of an idea you come across in Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels (which I adore), about there being weaker spots in the fabric of reality, where magic can seep through and create rifts. Pratchett created a realm called the Dungeon Dimensions, which are peopled with fantastic, nightmarish creatures, and they break through into the reality of the Discworld whenever a lot of magic is concentrated in one area. I imagined the archway to be quite like that - a breach, maybe not created, as En suggests, by a wizard deliberately, but perhaps a consequence of the amount of magic concentrated around it. But meh. Considering that whatever's behind the veil doesn't appear to break through into the reality of the Ministry, perhaps this idea's backwards. Travel between the DDimensions and the Discworld is possible from both sides, but maybe in HP, it's only possible from one direction. It'd be interesting if there was two-way travel, though, wouldn't it?
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Post by hermoine on Dec 2, 2003 13:39:01 GMT -5
Hmmm..well in the Department of Mysteries that's what they study isn't it. Strange stuff. I got the idea it was some sort of place, like En, said, sort of heaven or somehting(dunno if we can say that in the story but )
I don't think it could be possible to have two-way communication. Like if a person is dead, you can't talk to him/her, unless he/she is a ghost right?
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Calantha
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My name is Luck, this is my song, I happened by when you were gone
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Post by Calantha on Dec 16, 2003 16:58:15 GMT -5
Hmm... Actually, it bothered me a lot that it existed. Maybe because I don't know how it was created or that it should have been created at all? That now people have to live with having it there and it can be dangerous...I don't know.
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Fox Birch
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beauty lost
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Post by Fox Birch on Dec 16, 2003 23:57:26 GMT -5
i, too, was quite disconcerted ((or however the hell you spell it )) at the mere existance of this thing. it seems like something... twisted, doesn't it? i know people have a fascination with death or with anything they don't completely understand, but who would create something like this or why...?
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Post by hermoine on Dec 18, 2003 13:27:51 GMT -5
Maybe you don't like it because, 'cause of it we lost a dear fellow.
But I agree, why would someone create something like that archway.
Hey, just had an idea. Umm...maybe it was created, it kills a person as soon as that person passes through it right? Well, wouldn't that be a wonderful weapon against Voldemort. I don't think even he'd be able to stay alive.
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Post by En on Dec 19, 2003 16:27:55 GMT -5
Zeph's right... how else could you kill the guy who has drunk unicorn blood and naga milk and GOK what else?
Wow... *rethinks whole theory of end of books*
It bothers me that the archway exists, too, but it makes perfect sense that it would, and that the Ministry would have got hold of it and hidden it away. Think about Raiders of the Lost Ark. I'm not saying the US government actually has the Ark of the Covenant in a box somewhere, but it is the attitude of government to keep powerful things tucked away, not so they can use it necessarily, but just so no one else can.
And while the archway is terrifying, there are so many positive reasons someone would have wanted to create it -- to gain wisdom from the dead, or to ask what the afterlife is really like, or to understand the nature of the soul -- more positive reasons than negative ones. And it's perfectly normal for someone to do something really powerful while trying to do something good, but ending up doing something really bad -- think about how Gandalf and Galadriel were tempted by the One Ring; that's pretty standard. Heck, if I were Monarch of the World, I'd probably misuse the power with the best of intentions too; I'd do something thinking it would be for everyone's benefit, and it might have such bad side effects that everyone ever after would think I was evil and trying to cause disaster.
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Post by hermoine on Dec 23, 2003 3:54:45 GMT -5
That's good to hear once in a while.
So, if one bases on that theory it would mean that either the archway was there even before Voldemort vanished when Harry was one year old, OR that the Unspeakables were working on it all the time that Dumbledore and Co. were trying to persuade the community that he was back.
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Post by Sphi on Dec 31, 2003 23:53:04 GMT -5
Wait...so you guys think the Ministry created (or is perfecting) the Veil of Death as a method to kill Voldemort?! That's definitely a new idea. So that would mean one dies by falling through the Veil. I always thought it was more that it draws one in once his time has come. Like in Sirius' case...I assumed he was sorta sucked in because of Bellatrix's curse. If not, if it had just been an unlucky coincidence that as he was falling, he happened to be in the path of the Archway...wouldn't that makes his death so much worse? It would make his death an accident.
Okay, so on the other side of this Veil is Death, correct? And everyone who's died moves to this...land or dimension (except for those who've become ghosts?...I do wonder if they ever appear on that side first...). Are people are actually drawn towards the mystery (or beauty, as En suggested) of this Archway? I know Harry was, but do you think that might be because he's always wondered about his parents' death? I don't even think Luna was attracted to the Archway; it doesn't seem like death is on her mind as much.
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Post by hermoine on Jan 1, 2004 3:27:11 GMT -5
That's what it would be. Death by accident. I think.
Yup, on the other side, there are dead people. Not ghosts though. 'Cause ghosts wander about freely. They are people who have moved on. Could be, or maybe the veil, it draws people to it.
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Post by Sphi on Jan 1, 2004 18:13:05 GMT -5
I know ghosts wander freely. My question was whether or not those who become ghosts first go to this other dimension, even for just a little time. But I guess I can answer my own question, because I was rethinking about when Harry approached Nearly Headless Nick, hoping that Sirius would return, and Nick said that he didn't know the secrets about life and death (or something like that) because he chose to be a ghost instead.
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Post by hermoine on Jan 5, 2004 8:54:35 GMT -5
Yup, that's it.
Even though this veil was created to kill Voldemort, it's still really dangerous, because as we all know, Sirius died because of it. But then you'd tell me, that nobody was supposed to have gone there. I say it's all Kreacher's falt!!
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Post by En on Jan 5, 2004 18:56:20 GMT -5
I don't know that the Veil was invented to kill Voldemort. I think it was invented for some probably innocuous purpose, ended up costing some lives, and ended up in the Ministry's department of secrets to keep people from hurting themselves. But I do think that the Veil could be used on Voldy. It would be dangerous, but... maybe...?
It is Kreacher's fault; Kreacher was a traitor. ...well, no, not quite. He was a traitor to Sirius, but he was faithful to Mrs. Black. Bit sticky, that. *sighs*
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Post by hermoine on Jan 11, 2004 15:35:20 GMT -5
It could definately be a way of saying so long, to him.
Yeah well, Sirius never was the type to be much around the house. And besides, he just wasn't like the rest of the Blacks.
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