AlderadDangarian
1st Year
All things are divisible by, multiples of, or are somehow directly or indirectly related to the #5!
Posts: 65
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Post by AlderadDangarian on Jul 22, 2007 10:06:25 GMT -5
I got the book yesterday at 11am and finished it at 1am. Two words: awesome!
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Post by Sphi on Jul 23, 2007 13:40:20 GMT -5
Okay, let's make this the official spoiler thread. So don't read on if you're not done.
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I feel that, in spite of everything tragic that happened, the series had a very happy ending. Especially because of the epithet and how we got a glimpse of how everything turned out, not just with the marriages (aww...I love the pairings ) and the children, but the small things, like Harry really accepting the bravery behind Snape's role in all this and the knowledge that Hogwarts is up and running again, just like in the old days.
Of course I was absolutely devastated by the deaths...it just felt like there was a laundry list of deaths... That one scene in the Great Hall, when the bodies were lined up side to side tore me apart...as did the scene with the Resurrection Stone. And Snape's Pensieve chapter, too...that was one of the most emotional for me.
One thing that wasn't perfectly clear to me at first (I'm doing some rereading, so maybe I can figure it out) was how exactly Harry survived the death curse in the forest. I understand that Voldemort and Harry had a stronger connection than Voldemort assumed, but how was it that Harry survived the curse while Voldemort reverted to that fetus-like form? Was it just because the Elder Wand wouldn't kill its rightful master? And then the final battle, when Harry had a wand to use, was when Harry not only survived but defeated Voldemort as well?
Oh, and another question that sorta relates to that. Was Harry just lucky that he managed to steal Draco's wand and therefore become the rightful master of the Elder wand, or did he know somehow that he had to do so? If he never stole Draco's wand, the final battle wouldn't have turned out as it had, right?
Anyone else? Thoughts?
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[ Wiz ]
Gryffindor House Member
Posts: 529
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Post by [ Wiz ] on Jul 23, 2007 16:02:04 GMT -5
I trust I shall not be the only one returning to old message boards as the last words of the book roll off the tongue.
I'm pretty satisfied with the ending, I expected some deaths, in fact I was rahter expecting JK to kill off Ron or Hermoine. I always had a suspicion in the back of my mind for some reason that Aberforth was the barman from Hog's Head.
I had read theories on the net that discussed whether Harry's scar was a horcrux - but, I thought it'd be rather melodramatic if JK killed him off (ChildLine - the children's telephone support charity in the UK allready has extended its workers to cope with the deaths in BK7 - the lines would be going overboard if Harry died).
There was some deep stuff in Harry's discussion with Dumbledore which probably has the answer to your questions Sphi, I'll be re-reading the book myself as I've probably skimmed over some vital chunks.
One thing that I think JK missed out was the Dursleys, I was expecting them to crop up in the end and it would've been good to hear what happened to them.
There are allready people making bets on JK releasing another book, I, for one, am not expecting it - but there will always be that hope in the back of the mind.
For now, let us just ponder over the happenings in this one, and discuss how difficult it'll be for the directors to make a movie of it.
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Calantha
Gryffindor Alumni
My name is Luck, this is my song, I happened by when you were gone
Posts: 4,493
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Post by Calantha on Jul 23, 2007 18:56:24 GMT -5
Things that I really enjoyed: 1.) I loved that so many people died, I know it's a little odd, but I don't think the book would have had as chilling of an effect as it did had some of the favourites NOT have died--especially when we find that Snape (as many of us thought) was not going towards the dark side. 2.) On that note, I felt the allusions to the races/abilities to Nazi, Germany were not overdone, but certainly not underplayed, which created the perfect foil to the humor in the book--did anyone else think that this book, despite the deaths, was just plain funny at parts? 3.) Harry the godfather? Tears came to my eyes. 4.) The epilogue was the right amount of cheese after the entirely necessary intensity of all of the book. 5.) JK tied up a lot of loose ends--Buckbeak came back, Oliver Wood was there, just a few characters who I felt were lost to all. 6.) Loved the Hallows. Not a huge fan of the Horocruxes, but the Hallows were great--I loved that they fit into a story. 7.) Backstories to Snape, Lilly, Petunia, and James--truly appreciated
I could go on, but I'll stop for right now.
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Post by Sphi on Jul 24, 2007 1:42:36 GMT -5
I agree about the humor. Rowling definitely maintained her sense of humor in this book, which was great.
I liked the fact that we had both the Hallows and the Horcruxes. The conflict Harry felt in choosing which to pursue was really meaningful, especially when we see how Dumbledore had reacted to the chance to use the Stone to bring back his family.
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Post by Peregrinus on Jul 24, 2007 21:51:53 GMT -5
Yeah she did get a lot of humor into the book especially in the Will of Dumbledore chapter.
However, did it seem like she rushed the end a little bit? I mean she explained some in the last chapter, but there were still a lot of unanswered questions.
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Post by Ritsu on Jul 25, 2007 7:43:33 GMT -5
One thing that wasn't perfectly clear to me at first (I'm doing some rereading, so maybe I can figure it out) was how exactly Harry survived the death curse in the forest. I understand that Voldemort and Harry had a stronger connection than Voldemort assumed, but how was it that Harry survived the curse while Voldemort reverted to that fetus-like form? Was it just because the Elder Wand wouldn't kill its rightful master? And then the final battle, when Harry had a wand to use, was when Harry not only survived but defeated Voldemort as well?
I didn't get that part either. After the Pensieve scene, when Harry realized he was one of the Horcruxes and had to die, I was a bit stunned because I really thought JKR wouldn't have the courage to get away with it, like she said she would. Then Voldemort does the Killing Curse and next thing we know he's in an hallucination in King's Cross with Dumbledore? I felt that part was kinda forced, and the explanation she gave us as to Harry didn't die was too confusing. What I understood was that only the Voldemort bit of Harry was killed, but then again, how could the Killing Curse have selected the good part from the bad part? Then Dumbledore said something about Voldemort having some of Lily's enchantment running through his veins, too, because of the Little Hangleton events. Wasn't that supposed to protect Voldemort, as it once protected Harry? So why does it weaken him, too?
I thought the whole King's Cross chapter was the weak part of the book. It was too forced. Dumbledore being an hallucination, but at the same time explaining everything to Harry just like he did in the previous movies. Hallucinations are supposed to be things that happen in our heads, imagined by us. So how come Harry imagined Dumbledore just as Dumbledore was, talking in the way Dumbledore always did and giving Harry answers only Dumbledore could know? Am I making any sense? Oh, and as for the crying child... who was he? Tom?
I loved the book. It's completely different from the others regarding suspense and rhythm. In the others, things only got a bit tense from the middle of the book until the end. With this one, it starts at the very beginning. It's just this constant tension, this constant feeling that danger is lurking around the corner and that there's no way to escape and no one to trust. I really liked that.
Liked the Ron leaving bit. It kinda made me hate him (and after Sirius's death... and before reading the Snape Pensieve part) he was my favourite character, but it was only logical and it felt really real. Put three people together, alone against the world, in a quest that seems frustrating, dealing with death every second... one of them is sure to break. Specially Ron with the whole "second best" syndrome and growing jealous of Harry and Hermione because of the dark influence the locket had on him. I liked it. It was very human.
I confess tears got to my eyes when Harry found Lily's letter in Sirius's room floor. But what got to me the most was Snape's story. I mean... wow. I knew he wasn't evil and the whole "killing Dumbledore" part had yet to be explained because it just couldn't be true, but I was far from imagining such a thing. I mean, I had a feeling he might have felt something for Lily, because of the Pensieve in Book 5, when she's the only one to defend him against James and Sirius. People who're mocked the way he was have a certain tendency to feel empathy with those who protect them. But I never, never thought it was such a passion. Or that it had begun at such a tender age and lasted a lifetime. Or being strong enough to make Snape change to the Order's side and fight against Voldemort. I can't say how much I loved his story and how much it changed my views on Snape. I always felt that, even if he turned out to be a good guy, he would never be one of my favourites. Well imagine now. He is. I feel like reading the previous six books all over again because of him, to look at him in another prespective and such. And his Patronus being the silver doe *tear*
I also got tears in my eyes when Harry said Albus's full name. Albus Severus. It was a great thing that he recognised Snape's sacrifice and gave him such an homage. But I thought the epilogue, in general, felt kinda... I dunno. It exhaled peace and happiness and seeing Ron and Hermione still together brought me joy beyond belief, but... I mean, they all started going out when they were teenagers. Those kinds of relationships don't last that long
But go Ron and Hermione. At last. After all these years of waiting and fearing that JKR might pull an anti-climax and pair her with someone else instead, it finally happened. Their first kiss is so cool.
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[ Wiz ]
Gryffindor House Member
Posts: 529
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Post by [ Wiz ] on Jul 25, 2007 11:07:14 GMT -5
I don't think JK would make something so confusing, the answer must be something logical in Dumbledore's explanation, in my opinion - Harry does die but he's somewhere between life and death when Dumbledore talks to him (I don't think it's a hallucination - it must be real). Voldemort's killing curse killed the horcrux soul because of the link between them created by the blood, but technically Harry had two souls so he has the choice to go back to life.
It also explains why Dumbledore had the fleeting triumphant look in his eyes when Harry told him that Voldemort had used his blood in the reincarnation process (GoF).
Also, JK has promised to write a HP encyclopedia with information on what happens to the other characters after TDH:
Further details are here.
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Post by Ritsu on Jul 25, 2007 16:41:05 GMT -5
I don't think JK would make something so confusing, the answer must be something logical in Dumbledore's explanation, in my opinion - Harry does die but he's somewhere between life and death when Dumbledore talks to him (I don't think it's a hallucination - it must be real). Voldemort's killing curse killed the horcrux soul because of the link between them created by the blood, but technically Harry had two souls so he has the choice to go back to life. Well, that should explain it. I still find it a bit ... odd that the Killing Curse can be selective, but if he went to that sort of limbo and his "sane" self could choose between going on or going back, that makes some sense. He died, but since his soul was split in two and part of it died, he had a second chance to go back. Is that it? So why did Dumbledore go on and on about his mother's blood and everything? Because Lily's charm always protected Harry, and if some of it passed onto Voldemort's veins, it ought to protect him too. Unless, of course, love in Voldemort's veins was a weakness rather than strenght.
I read about that Encyclopedia today, too. If indeed she does it, I'll buy it. Perhaps it'll have full details on what happened to characters afterwards! Like mini-biographies. "Born in 19--, did this did that married this and had this and that kid and then went to do this and died in ----". That'd be cool. Specially since she didn't mention what happened to Luna Lovegood.
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Isbister15
Gryffindor Alumni
Mmmm...chocolate
Posts: 5,082
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Post by Isbister15 on Jul 26, 2007 0:20:52 GMT -5
I have to agree with you all on the Harry dying bit in the book. KG and I were both quite angry about that because, if Harry really was a Horcrux, he would have *had* to die for Voldemort to meet his demise. A co-worker of mine doesn't believe that Harry was a true Horcrux...that that's just what Dumbledore wanted him to think. I don't know. Dumbledore did explain in book 6 about how it is somewhat unwise to turn a living object into a Horcrux since they're not fully controllable and are able to put themselves into jeopardy (although he was supposedly talking about Nagini at that time). The only that we figured it could all work out like it did was if, as Wiz said, the Killing Curse only detroyed the portion of Voldemort's soul that was within Harry. I'm not sure how I feel about this book yet... For one, I was sure Harry was going to die and I'm upset that my idea of the conclusion of the series didn't come to fruition. However, what just about ruined the book for me was when Dumbledore told Snape (as we saw in the Pensieve) that Harry would have to die...that he was knowingly sending Harry to his death. Seriously, that killed it for me. I literally said, "No!" out loud and closed the book. Even with everything new we learned about Dumbedore in the ealier stages of this book, I just couldn't buy him saying this about Harry. That's not the Dumbledore that I know. I honestly feel that if he really felt that that was Harry's fate, he would have told him himself, knowing full well that Harry would have done what he felt was necessary "for the greater good." The only way I could stomach this part and continue on reading was if I told myself that Dumbledore was only saying this, that he didn't believe it to be true but that he needed Harry to believe it and still be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice. I figure since he said it with his eyes shut tight, maybe he didn't want Snape to look into his thoughts and know that he was not speaking truthfully. Didn't like that no one in the end named their child Fred, and that we don't know what role Harry plaed in Teddy Tonk's life. And who was Teddy kissing on the platform? And why was he there anyway, as he would be nearing 20? And, as you said, what happened to Luna? Did Harry have any more contact with the Dursley's? I wish Richard Harris was still alive to play Dumbledore. What about the voices behind the veil? Why wasn't that ever explained? I have so many more questions...but I've just been hit with a wrackspurt and I need to go to bed anyway. I think I need to reread the book.
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Post by Ritsu on Jul 26, 2007 6:46:32 GMT -5
Exactly, like every other Horcrux was 100% destroyed and just like Nagini had to be killed. Or did Nagini go to some limbo too where it was allowed to choose if it wanted to go on or not? I think that whole chapter was pulled out just so Harry wouldn't die. Harry dying would be a tragedy, there would be hundreds, thousands of children going mad about it and I think JKR was pretty wise to prevent it. That doesn't change the fact that, after brilliantly writing six previous books, she could've come up with a more logical explanation. I still haven't digested that chapter. My mother ordered the audiobooks so she can listen while she's driving to work and I'm really eager for them to arrive so I can sort of "re-read" it while I'm driving with her. Maybe through listening, not reading, the whole thing will become more understandable. At least I hope so.
How's KG?
I wasn't really that shocked about that... I actually liked it. I think it was good that even the greatest example of kindness, brilliance and moral had his faults too and his evil scheming. He shows his regret in that dreadful chapter... I never felt a huge connection with Dumbledore, though, that's maybe why I was so heartless about the whole thing. I always thought he was too good to be true, that there had to be something behind all his greatness, just to make him a little more human. Some mistakes, some bad choices.
I felt angry about the Veil, too. I had hoped that, with what Luna said in the end of OoTP, that we were going to have some explanations about it. And I was sure that whatever JKR was writing about it, it would have to include Sirius returning. Well, Sirius does return, in a way, but that's not what I was expecting. I read in other reviews that JKR did say she was going to write more on The Veil. I hate it that she finished the series still with unanswered questions behind.
I felt that way about no one naming their child Fred, too! I mean, Harry and Ginny named their kids after basically everyone. Ok, exaggerating, but named them paying homage to people they admired. James, Lily, Albus Severus (still think that combination sounds bad). Ron and Hermione should have named one of their kids Fred. Their kids names mean nothing. I thought they'd follow Harry's example. But well, maybe George named his kid after Fred. Seems logical.
I was so moved about Snape's Patronus being a Silver Doe Seriously, the whole Snape story is perhaps what I loved most about the book.
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Post by nancy on Jul 26, 2007 12:16:04 GMT -5
Heh, Rita, don't feel bad about tears coming to your eyes you know? I spent about half the book either feeling like I was gonna cry, or feeling silly about having felt I was gonna cry.
The thing I found most confusing, and I've talked of it with friends, is that Draco was the owner of the Elder Wand? How did he become so?
Oh, and I don't think anyone's mentioned it before, but I just sort of skimmed thru the posts... another thing I found very moving was the way in which Dudley reacted to the whole evacuation thing. I mean, nothing compared to the deaths of Fred ( =( ) or Mad-Eye or Tonks, but still. And I think Snape was a great character thru the whole series, especially towards the end...
I must re-read it all. Not only Hallows, but everything. I haven't in a while, and I want to understand things I might've missed.
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Post by Ritsu on Jul 26, 2007 13:04:16 GMT -5
I didn't get it either. Did Snape kill Dumbledore with Draco's wand? Because that would be the only way the Elder Want would be his.
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Post by Sphi on Jul 26, 2007 15:47:25 GMT -5
Oooh, yeah I think you might be onto something, Wiz, with the idea of the horcrux soul dying.And who was Teddy kissing on the platform? And why was he there anyway, as he would be nearing 20? I think we're supposed to infer that the girl (Victoire was her name, right?) is supposed to be Bill and Fleur's daughter. Teddy's probably dating her, which is why he would accompany her to the train station.The thing I found most confusing, and I've talked of it with friends, is that Draco was the owner of the Elder Wand? How did he become so? Oh, and I don't think anyone's mentioned it before, but I just sort of skimmed thru the posts... another thing I found very moving was the way in which Dudley reacted to the whole evacuation thing. I mean, nothing compared to the deaths of Fred ( =( ) or Mad-Eye or Tonks, but still. And I think Snape was a great character thru the whole series, especially towards the end... I was also confused about Draco being the owner at first, but then I remembered that at the end of HBP, Draco is the one that disarms Dumbledore. He just can't bring himself to actually kill him. But Draco is the one who forcefully took Dumbledore's wand away from him.
I agree with you about the Dudley thing...I didn't think anyone else would find that touching, actually. I got a little teary-eyed at that part, but of course I was full-out crying at later parts, like Snape's backstory and the deaths.
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S.S Tigress
Slytherin Alumni
Shots in the dark from empty guns, never heard by anyone
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Post by S.S Tigress on Jul 29, 2007 2:22:07 GMT -5
I don't want to get too repetitive here because I'm sure this thread will grow so I'll just say:
I basically have all the same thoughts as everyone else above. About having more questions, things not answered and things making me cry etc. But I think JKR has all the answers to everything, she just couldn't fit them into a book, so I think the encyclopedia will be most useful (and probably will have great sale rates too and I'm not quite sure but I thought I read somewhere here the theory that Snape was in love with Lily. So when I read that part of the book I was really surprised I had participated in a theory that came true, hehe!
Overall I think it was a fine ending. I still think Harry really should have died in the end but then I realize that this is first a children's book and so I forgive her for pulling out King's Cross on us.
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