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Post by hermoine on Oct 23, 2003 9:52:11 GMT -5
Wow you want top become a lawyer too. Cool!! Now I'nm starting to face the prob of choosing the subjects for college, always that I get enough O' levels. Hopefully I'll get them. At college I gotta choose like 5 subjects and the only two I know I have to choose are Maltese(my home language) and English. The others...... Any suggestions?
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Post by En on Oct 23, 2003 10:48:26 GMT -5
Do you have classes in philosophy or logic? That would be good. If not, just make sure to take advanced literature classes wherever you can, because they will make you write essays, and that's basically what most legal papers are -- essays with an introduction, supporting points and conclusion.
If you want to be a trial lawyer (as opposed to a tax or real estate lawyer), make sure to get involved in public speaking classes or clubs. Especially if they have you do "extemporaneous speaking," where they give you a surprise topic and you have to just get up and talk. Also -- try out for plays. That's another good way to prepare for needing to present ideas and answer what other people around you are saying.
For divorce law, a little psychology never hurts, but if you can't take psychology, do literature. Divorces are about people trying to get their lives in order when what they're doing isn't working anymore. This is also what most classic books are about.
If you want to do taxes -- or divorce law for that matter -- you'll need to take plenty of math, especially algebra and accounting (if it's offered). If you want to do real estate, geometry is a very good idea. This might sound weird, but formal geometry is also a good idea for any kind of law because of the way they make you write proofs of the answer.
And of course history. History is very important if you want to do any kind of law. You need to know where the laws came from and how and why they change. A lot of lawyers here aren't very good at that, and that's why they're just paper pushers. If you want to make a difference, you need to know your history, so you can make some of your own
There's my rant. But be sure to ask Robin and KoNeko -- they will have some good ideas.
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Post by hermoine on Oct 23, 2003 11:14:05 GMT -5
Do you have classes in philosophy or logic? That would be good. If not, just make sure to take advanced literature classes wherever you can, because they will make you write essays, and that's basically what most legal papers are -- essays with an introduction, supporting points and conclusion. Well, I'm afraid I can't choose philosophy at this level. That's only at University level here. And logic, I don't think there's actualyl that kind of subject. But I try hard on my own at that. Literature classes, well I'll be having them since I'm gonna choose English...Maltese I dunno. If you want to be a trial lawyer (as opposed to a tax or real estate lawyer), make sure to get involved in public speaking classes or clubs. Especially if they have you do "extemporaneous speaking," where they give you a surprise topic and you have to just get up and talk. Also -- try out for plays. That's another good way to prepare for needing to present ideas and answer what other people around you are saying. We do sort of that thing during PSD lessons, sooo..but I'm afraid I can't take part in plays, see in my school you have to be either good in singing, dancing or acting to take part. 'Cause we do musicals as plays. ;D For divorce law, a little psychology never hurts, but if you can't take psychology, do literature. Divorces are about people trying to get their lives in order when what they're doing isn't working anymore. This is also what most classic books are about. If you want to do taxes -- or divorce law for that matter -- you'll need to take plenty of math, especially algebra and accounting (if it's offered). If you want to do real estate, geometry is a very good idea. This might sound weird, but formal geometry is also a good idea for any kind of law because of the way they make you write proofs of the answer. Yeah I friend of mine's brother chose pure maths, and he wants to become a lawyer as well. I like algebra, most of it anyway. And of course history. History is very important if you want to do any kind of law. You need to know where the laws came from and how and why they change. A lot of lawyers here aren't very good at that, and that's why they're just paper pushers. If you want to make a difference, you need to know your history, so you can make some of your own I think the history of law is more at University level here. I mean if you choose history it's all about the history of Malta and stuff..... There's my rant. But be sure to ask Robin and KoNeko -- they will have some good ideas. Thanks for all the great tips. Oh 'cause I didn't tell you, there isn't law school here, 'cause I know in america there are loads, and in other countries as well, but we don't have one here....
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Post by En on Oct 23, 2003 12:06:12 GMT -5
I know Malta's small, but no law degree? Where to Maltese lawyers usually go for law school?!
Oh, on history, I meant any kind of history. You can pick up all kinds of important stuff about the history of law from any history class -- like, for us in the States, the Magna Carta is pretty much the basis of a lot of our legal system, and we learn about that in history class. Also, history-of-Europe classes will teach you about everything from how the Catholic Church, the early European nations and law are interrelated, to how Hitler got a kind of "Patriot Act" set of laws put into place to start eroding the freedoms of German people, with the end result we all know.
Actually, on languages -- taking Latin doesn't matter as much as it used to, at least not here, because we don't use a lot of the Latin terminology anymore. But taking some language besides your own is a good idea, because that helps your logic skills too. You already have English, hermoine; I'm saying this for our other pre-lawyers
You know who's great for literature and law? Shakespeare. I totally recommend that you read The Merchant of Venice, because it's all about a contract law case. ;D
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Post by KoNeko on Oct 24, 2003 8:58:24 GMT -5
*laughs* En, don't get me started on The Merchant of Venice. In Contract class we actually went though it and had to hilight the offer, acceptance, consideration and alleged breach and remedies in that so... yeah.
I have one point to digress on what En says- while choosing subjects is all well and good, when I was at school, how the marking system worked was that it was easier to do well in maths/science based classes than it was in humanities subjects. Like, because humanities subjects were deemed to be "easier", they were marked harder than maths/science so a lot of people who ended up going to law school actually went through school doing physics and specialist maths (the hardest maths stream) and stuff like that. They did come out with a very logical method of thinking, whihc is important in law, but generally people who did artsy subjects were more into interpreting judgements and cases and statute. It balances out in the end anyway, but how you get there sort of might depend on how the system is over there.
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Post by hermoine on Oct 24, 2003 9:24:25 GMT -5
Well En, if you want to study law here, you have to go to University. That's the only place. We did Magna Carta, but just briefly in my first year, soooo...During my history lesson, we just talk of how Mala came under the British Empire, after the English and French signed a sort of contract.... I know I should learn languages. Well besides Maltese and English, I learn, French and I know how to speak Italian. Yeah we do Shakespeare in English Literature, last year we did most of Merchant of Venice. You're reffering to I guess when in court with Shylock, and then the princess comes in, can't remember her name right now, and she with her cunning her husband's friend is free. Yeah we did it. 'Cause this year we're doing Romeo and Juliet. And we had this whole book with parts from his plays, like Macbeth, A midsummer's night dream, ummm..King Lear, anyway loads. Well Koneko I have Physics, 'cause it's obligatory and yes you have to come to solutions and stuff sometimes on your own. Artsy subjects you mean where you get to discuss a lot and stuff?
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Post by En on Oct 24, 2003 10:04:23 GMT -5
Hehe. The Romans had two divisions of education. One part was composed of what we'd consider "maths and sciences" -- and the modern equivalent would be stuff like physics, chemistry, specialised maths, and computer science. The other part was art, literature, speech, history, that kind of stuff.
What I'm saying is that I think it's super, super important for lawyers to study the artsy stuff -- art, literature, speech and history -- probably more important than maths unless you're going to be a tax lawyer. Because while the maths teach you logic and how to move numbers to get results you want, art and literature teach you about people and how to express what you think, speech teaches you how to argue your point, and history teaches you what is and is not a good law.
What Koko is saying is that depending on your school system, and depending on the entrance standards of your school, it might be harder to get in if you do arts more than sciences. Like, if your law school requires that you have top marks, and your current school grades sciences easier than arts, it might be smarter to take sciences so you can get the top marks.
But I will synthesize Koko's antithesis I have a friend who wanted to go to MIT, which is one of the two top physics schools in the USA. But he also wanted to get a well-rounded education -- meaning, including arts -- because he realised that if you learn lots of different things, it's like getting more tools to put in your toolbox. Where all the physics-only kids go off to MIT with just screwdrivers and hammers -- physics and maths -- he went with pliers, wrenches, a multi-use ratchet and a drill set -- art, literature, speech and history.
Well, he didn't get very good marks in art, but he wrote a letter to MIT saying basically that they should let him in even though he didn't have a good marks average, because he did get top marks in physics -- the subject he wanted to study at MIT -- and he also took other classes to challenge himself and make himself a well-rounded person, and make him able to think "outside the box."
They let him in. Now he's at MIT and he's getting a PhD, and he's one of the most inventive students they've ever had, because he learned from history classes how science affects people, and about the history of scientific invention. And he learned from literature and speech classes how to express himself well, so he's really good at writing grant applications -- and you have to be able to do that to get science research grants. So he'll be an even better scientist than all those people who studied just math and science -- and MIT was smart enough to understand that and let him in even though his marks average was lower than they like.
To sum up -- you have to decide which school you want to get into, and then you have to decide what set of classes will get you in, but you also have to consider what set of classes will make you the kind of lawyer you want to be -- and being a well-rounded lawyer is a good idea
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Post by hermoine on Oct 24, 2003 14:22:09 GMT -5
Hehe. The Romans had two divisions of education. One part was composed of what we'd consider "maths and sciences" -- and the modern equivalent would be stuff like physics, chemistry, specialised maths, and computer science. The other part was art, literature, speech, history, that kind of stuff.
What I'm saying is that I think it's super, super important for lawyers to study the artsy stuff -- art, literature, speech and history -- probably more important than maths unless you're going to be a tax lawyer. Because while the maths teach you logic and how to move numbers to get results you want, art and literature teach you about people and how to express what you think, speech teaches you how to argue your point, and history teaches you what is and is not a good law.
What Koko is saying is that depending on your school system, and depending on the entrance standards of your school, it might be harder to get in if you do arts more than sciences. Like, if your law school requires that you have top marks, and your current school grades sciences easier than arts, it might be smarter to take sciences so you can get the top marks. Well I used to have art and literature but that was in my first and second years. To tell you the truth I hated literature we were always writing about aesop's fables and stuff.... But I will synthesize Koko's antithesis I have a friend who wanted to go to MIT, which is one of the two top physics schools in the USA. But he also wanted to get a well-rounded education -- meaning, including arts -- because he realised that if you learn lots of different things, it's like getting more tools to put in your toolbox. Where all the physics-only kids go off to MIT with just screwdrivers and hammers -- physics and maths -- he went with pliers, wrenches, a multi-use ratchet and a drill set -- art, literature, speech and history.
Well, he didn't get very good marks in art, but he wrote a letter to MIT saying basically that they should let him in even though he didn't have a good marks average, because he did get top marks in physics -- the subject he wanted to study at MIT -- and he also took other classes to challenge himself and make himself a well-rounded person, and make him able to think "outside the box."
They let him in. Now he's at MIT and he's getting a PhD, and he's one of the most inventive students they've ever had, because he learned from history classes how science affects people, and about the history of scientific invention. And he learned from literature and speech classes how to express himself well, so he's really good at writing grant applications -- and you have to be able to do that to get science research grants. So he'll be an even better scientist than all those people who studied just math and science -- and MIT was smart enough to understand that and let him in even though his marks average was lower than they like.
To sum up -- you have to decide which school you want to get into, and then you have to decide what set of classes will get you in, but you also have to consider what set of classes will make you the kind of lawyer you want to be -- and being a well-rounded lawyer is a good idea I get your point. Hmm..you see if I decide to go to college, there's only one I can attend. Since Malta ain't that big, there's only 1 college.
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Post by KoNeko on Nov 23, 2003 7:40:46 GMT -5
Hmmm, Herm, what's the chance of you being able to study abroad or something then? Like, do some of the law subjects overseas or something, so that way you'd have a bit more choice as to where you wanted to study?
*grins* I'm officially now a postgraduate according to the university library computer system. ;D
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Post by hermoine on Nov 25, 2003 15:39:05 GMT -5
Yeah I thought of that. Many people go to study in England for example. A friend of my dad's did so, but unless you can afford it or know someone who lives there and ou can live with him/her you must get a sponsor. That is kinda difficult to get. That's why my dad didn't go abroad to study. CONGRATS NEKO!
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Post by Nie on Nov 27, 2003 20:18:58 GMT -5
Hooray for KoKo!! ;D
Well it seems that what I'm currently aiming to be is a Computer Technician. It'll be away cool job. I get to pull people's thing apart and take everything out, bang on it a bit, rewire everything differently, then put it back together, and they pay me for it. ;D Usually, I just get yelled at.
But I'm thinking that later on down the line I'll prolly get a teaching degree of some kind as well. I've been getting the feeling that I have a calling as a teacher of some kind, but not till later in life.
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Calantha
Gryffindor Alumni
My name is Luck, this is my song, I happened by when you were gone
Posts: 4,493
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Post by Calantha on Nov 27, 2003 23:54:20 GMT -5
I wonder how many people total on this board are interested in becoming a teacher at some point in their life?
My sister is going through a bit of a crisis, although she is always a worrier about things, but she is getting her degree in enviornmental policy and hasn't been able to find a job that suits her yet. Anyway, she has no clue what she wants to be so I asked her if she could be anything what what would she choose and she said she wanted to stay at school year round and never leave. Anyway, that really didn't have any relevance...just that it is very unfamiliar turf to me to not know something you'd like to be because I've always had a plan...
I'd love to study abroad if I'd get the chance.
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Post by KoNeko on Nov 28, 2003 1:50:39 GMT -5
Hmmm, I don't want to teach necessarily, but I'm thinking that I'll end up being an academic of some sort, maybe just writing journal articles and occasionally tutoring or something, probably at a university or late high-school level. I don't want to teach at that level because most kids there don't appear to be very grateful- I mean, on the other hand, they seem to be highly critical and annoying! I don't know if I'd be able to handle that for a long time.
Cal, usually schools have like, brother/sister schools overseas so maybe you could find a place that does and have like, a semester somewhere else while getting credit for your subjects?
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Calantha
Gryffindor Alumni
My name is Luck, this is my song, I happened by when you were gone
Posts: 4,493
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Post by Calantha on Nov 28, 2003 8:24:31 GMT -5
Hmm yeah...the college I'm going to next year gives a grant for English majors to go to a school in England to study...luckily I'm going to a small school where I have a better chance of getting it. But they don't have an actual study abroad program, which isn't awful, it would just add a little something-something.
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Ceridwen
Gryffindor Alumni
Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense
Posts: 604
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Post by Ceridwen on Nov 28, 2003 10:55:41 GMT -5
I am only ever going to get older physically.. mentally, I want to stay the same age I am now! Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyhow.
My career - I want to be a literature teacher, also, but at university level. My area of interest is Medieval literature, Anglo-Saxon, Norman French, Middle English, that kind of thing. So I can't use it for anything else except working as a lecturer in a university somewhere! I also adore writing, and it has been my lifelong dream to be a published writer - not a mad famous or rich one - just published. I have written a book, but it's not what I would deem worthy of being sent to a publisher, so I haven't yet done that. But one of these days... ;D
I also dream of owning a bookshop, with a big children's section, where kids could come in on Saturday mornings and I could read to them. That's a real peaceful dream, for me.
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