AlderadDangarian
1st Year
All things are divisible by, multiples of, or are somehow directly or indirectly related to the #5!
Posts: 65
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Post by AlderadDangarian on Nov 7, 2003 18:10:26 GMT -5
I might be stepping on some toes here but look at it from the Devil's Advocate point of view. For all it's worth, what if he already turned? Voldemort seems to have some really good information already. Percy works in the Ministry. The Ministry is saying there is no danger. Percy is movin on up in the world and does have access to information. He could have been delivering "opened" mail all this time. Has someone checked his arm lately?
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Calantha
Gryffindor Alumni
My name is Luck, this is my song, I happened by when you were gone
Posts: 4,493
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Post by Calantha on Nov 8, 2003 8:38:33 GMT -5
*stabs a knife through her heart* Percy hasn't joined already! That just can not happen!
Okay, I can see where you're coming from but if Percy already joined, wouldn't JKR give us more hints that would lead us to believe that he was on Voldemort's side? I don't think she'd just throw it in...but maybe...
I mean, I think with what you're saying there is totally a possiblity of it...I just really really really hope not.
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Post by En on Nov 8, 2003 11:34:16 GMT -5
Hm, interesting theory... but I think not; because 1. Percy hasn't shown any problems with Muggles, 2. he really did seem to be covering up Crouch's absence because he wanted to be important and decisive () and not out of complicity or devious purposes, 3. his idea of power still seems to be centered on Fudge (and isn't that sad but proof that he hasn't yet tasted the kind of power Voldemort has to offer)...?
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Natz
Ravenclaw Alumni
Posts: 4,269
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Post by Natz on Nov 8, 2003 11:43:32 GMT -5
Thats what worries me En because the fact he deserted his family to achieve a higher position within the ministry what would percy sacrifice to get the kind of power that voldermort has got within the magical kingdom?
I agree with calantha that if percy had already joined j k rowling would have given us more hints.
At the moment percy is still under the control of fudge but what will happen to percy if he has no one to control him?
I'm a little concered at Percys obvious hunger for power and i don't think much good will come of it at first until he has learnt his lesson.
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MagPie
Gryffindor Alumni
Posts: 449
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Post by MagPie on Nov 8, 2003 13:53:19 GMT -5
I don't necessarily think Percy is after that same kind of power as Voldermort. I think he is more of a suck-up who wants to get ahead and be important by following all the rules. I also agree that there would be more hints if he had already or would soon be joining the Dark Side because that is how JKR writes. Even when she doesn't give obvious hints, she writes enough to make you think something is up, and I don't think that has happened with Percy. At least not for me.
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Post by En on Nov 8, 2003 14:10:06 GMT -5
Hahaha... yeah, what MagPie said
I do think that having Percy around is meant to help us understand that it's very easy to cause more harm than good if you're going after power for power's sake, and to help us see how thin the line is between doing good and doing harm -- one more step (like, if he started picking on muggle-born witch/zards) and I would be convinced that Percy could join Voldemort -- but I'm still hoping that he'll keep himself on this side of the line.
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AlderadDangarian
1st Year
All things are divisible by, multiples of, or are somehow directly or indirectly related to the #5!
Posts: 65
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Post by AlderadDangarian on Nov 8, 2003 19:15:19 GMT -5
Again, all very good points. Based on what we have seen from Percy, who has he had the most difficulty with besides his family? I seem to recall a certain heated discussion with Hermoine at one point in the book. Does he like Harry? What about his relationship with Dumbledore? I don't think there is the thought of innocent until proven guilty in JK's world.
I agree that JK's style of writing leads towards a certain amount of foreshadowing, however I did not see Sirius getting taken out of the equation. She could be taking us down a different path with this issue. At some point I think she will have to make another controversial to move this story to completion.
There is a mole in the Ministry, that is a fact. The traitor is going to be the person that is least suspected. "our true enemy has not yet shown his colors....just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in"
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Post by En on Nov 9, 2003 14:31:49 GMT -5
Percy was always rather distant and sanctimonious with Harry, don't you think? I mean, I think at first he was really pleased to have the famous Boy who Lived in Gryffindor, but Harry's been a serious rulebreaker. Although he usually made back whatever points he lost, Percy's such a perfectionist and so, well, judgmental, that he probably had a lot of built-up grudging against Harry by the time Fudge started saying that Harry was just trouble.
It's a little more distressing that Percy had had a good perspective on Dumbledore but appears to have lost it. Remember in Harry's first year when Dumbledore made that speech on his first night ("Nitwit, blubber, oddment, tweak!") and Harry asked Percy if Dumbledore were quite all there, and Percy said something like he's brilliant but a little weird, yes?
One thing that's always bothered me about Percy, besides the sanctimonious-ness, was that he had a bet with his girlfriend on Harry winning -- and didn't have the funds to back it up himself. That's a bit strange, in the bad way....
You'd think Percy and Hermione would have gotten along well because of her overachieving, but then again, Hermione's also become one who bends the rules when necessary... not that Percy hasn't, but he's got some serious double standards, hasn't he?
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Dare
1st Year
Posts: 59
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Post by Dare on Nov 10, 2003 16:00:50 GMT -5
I personally dont think think that Percy will stoop to back the Dark Lord, mostly because of his plodding sticklerish-ness for upholding the law. I dont think he would ever do anything to pose a DANGER to his family, no matter how estranged they are at the moment.
If you think about it, what Percy is doing right now is most likely gaining independence from his family. It's "a stage." How many hormonal just-barely-adults do you know who've rebelled in the same kind of way? now how many of those people have run away, joined a carnivorous, Devil-worshiping cult, and began a murderous rampage of terror? probably less than half, right? lol, most likely closer to none.
Btw, whoever mentioned about Percy's bet with Penny, it might say SOMETHING on Percy's character that he bet on Harry....
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Post by En on Nov 10, 2003 16:03:52 GMT -5
Does it, or was that just his loyalty to Gryffindor, and her choosing to bet on Cedric because her house (Ravenclaw) has historically been closer to Hufflepuff?
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Dare
1st Year
Posts: 59
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Post by Dare on Nov 10, 2003 20:47:10 GMT -5
That would depend.... to be positive we would have to know who voted first! buuuut, which is more likely to vote for a friend rather than the most logical choice?
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AlderadDangarian
1st Year
All things are divisible by, multiples of, or are somehow directly or indirectly related to the #5!
Posts: 65
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Post by AlderadDangarian on Nov 11, 2003 14:23:18 GMT -5
Is it possible that Percy is already working for The Dark Lord, but is actually a double agent for the Ministry? When I re-read about the falling out and Mr. & Mrs. Weasley's reactions in The Order of the P., Mr. Weasly seems to not react. Mrs. Weasley seems worried...
Lets look at something else, is Charlie still in Romania? Isn't that where the Dark Lord picked up Professor Quirrell? Wasn't Charlie at the Tri-Wizard tournament?
Perhaps there is more than one traitor in our midst...
Sorry, I am pretty big into the thought of conspiracy theory.
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Dare
1st Year
Posts: 59
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Post by Dare on Nov 11, 2003 15:09:10 GMT -5
Noooooo! Not Charlie!! I think i would lose it at that point. But then again.... its much easier to think of Percy as a traiter b/c he has such a smaller fanbase (please dont kill me, i just mean in regards to his personality and actions...) among the characters and readers than most of the Weasley family. Theres always the possibility that Percy is spying for the ministry, if he IS involved at all. btw... Mr. Weasley tended to "break whatever he was holding in his hands" whenever Percy's name was mentioned... it seems liek he was worried to me!
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Post by En on Nov 11, 2003 15:13:39 GMT -5
*cracks up* Welcome to the club, AD.
*puts on the devil's advocate hat* Seriously, I think Mr. Weasley's seeming un-reaction is just because he probably does have inner conflicts about what Percy said. I mean, he probably could have taken a promotion early on, gotten up higher in the ministry, and made more money. He probably feels a little guilty that he didn't, and yet, he's doing what he cares about most, something he's trying to teach his children -- so he probably feels like either way, he'd have lost something, and he chose to keep the principles and lose the money. And now Percy's saying he wants the money, not the principles. That's gotta hurt, but Mr. Weasley being who he is... it just makes sense to me that he'd deal with it by going right on doing what he thinks is right... and maybe he's too mad to reach out to Percy right now, because Percy's rebellion is really attacking the core of Mr. Weasley's beliefs.
As for the Romania thing... my bet is that that's where Durmstrang is, plus it's not too urban in general, so there's a natural sort of magnet for wizards to live in the area, so the fact that Charlie was there at the same time as Voldy is just coincidence.
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Dare
1st Year
Posts: 59
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Post by Dare on Nov 12, 2003 21:45:00 GMT -5
Actually, your conspiracy idea has some workable possibilities AD. At this point, with Sirius gone, the hardest blow that could be dealt to Harry would either be among his friends(never happen) *OR* to the Weasley family. Voldie might know this, and therefore search for the weakest link. Percy's a defininte at this point, but we really dont KNOW all that much about cannon Charlie and BillA traitor in his surrogate family would hit Harry pretty hard.... and JKR needs a good plot twist for the next book
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