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Post by Andy Bolton ... Returneth on Jul 18, 2005 6:25:25 GMT -5
How do you figure that Dumbledore was one of the Horcruxes? Like with the Harry-is-a-Horcrux theory, you would have to wonder why Voldemort would ever put a part of his soul into something he was out to kill wouldn't you? I've been thinking about this theory myself. I don't think its THAT implausible. As many character have said, he's the strongest wizard of his time, so wouldn't that make him hard to kill? Make a Horcrux out of something that is highly indestructible (without consent mind you). I can't recall right now if a person can be made a Horcrux. Of course, how could Dumbledore become a Horcrux is another question. I don't really recall the method for creating a Horcrux that well (other then someone has to die). Could Dumbledore been made a Horcux without his knowledge? Personally, I highly doubt that. It is a damn powerful spell and not something you could cast with a flick of the wand and a magic word. I find it hard to believe that if Dumbledore didn't want to die, he would have been able to stop his death. Which raises the question: WHY did Dumbledore want to die? Right now, I don't understand what his death would achieve at that particular point. That brings us to Snape. I believe, like a lot of other people, that it was planned. I will have to re-read the book again to look for hints to try and prove that (some have been raised already, but I'll go looking for more). Onto the book in general... Poor Ginny. I feel really sorry for her, but I think she expected that to happen. I doubt that she will go away, even though I imagine Harry will push her. Of course, I don't doubt that they will get back togeather once the danger has gone. Draco. Best character development of the entire series. I always thought that he would have some good in him, bless his little soul. I think he will rebel, perhaps not help Harry, but so something for himself that will help Harry. I could go on for pages and pages, but I digress. Still, a good (not great) step in the series. So we have to wait 2 years for the next? dammit! BTW, this is the return of Andy Bolton. +10 Cool Points to those who remember that name!
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Lucius
1st Year
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Post by Lucius on Jul 18, 2005 7:54:15 GMT -5
I personally think that the idea dumbledore is a horcrux is pretty ridiculous, voldemort made all of his horcruxes out of trophies with significance *at least thats the assumption anyway* I think that also it takes some kind of ceremony or something like voldemorts regeneration thing in goblet of fire to create a horcrux.
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Calantha
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My name is Luck, this is my song, I happened by when you were gone
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Post by Calantha on Jul 18, 2005 10:44:18 GMT -5
I'm so shocked in the sense that I was when Sirius died and I have to wait to get the next book!
Okay...I don't think a person is a horcrux, but if *anyone* would be, I think it would probably be Harry. There's all this talk about how some of V's power transferred to him, well, perhaps V transferred some of his soul to Harry Potter? I think that would be the only way a horcrux could be a person.
And Dumbledore, I'm sure, didn't want to die, but felt that he had no other choice. I'd like to think that Snape is an evil, backstabbing villian, but I think there is a great possibility that Snape and Dumbledore had decided that if the time came, he would kill Dumbledore if it meant saving Harry's life. Chances are Harry would have died if there was a fight because he would have, perhaps, died for Dumbledore if allowed to. Dumbledore realized this and died for Harry, so that he couldn't be hurt. Afterall, in the cave (or shortly after leaving it) Dumbledore says something about being thankful that he was with Harry or something like that. Dumbledore, after his injury, perhaps realized that he would ultimately die soon, but that Harry was, as always, the key to ending V's reign of terror.
Bbbuuuttt, like En said, where was the jam question?! I was suspecting one of the people in the book to not be who they were supposed to be...I mean, if it were me, I would have been asking that question like there was no tomorrow every meeting I had! A big part of me thinks that Dumbledore is in hiding and will return and that someone else was killed that night. But if Harry knows that it was someone else, then the risk of other people might knowing also appears, putting greater risk on the both of them. Also, Harry can't keep on relying on Dumbledore's strength to protect him. It's a crutch and the readers need to see Harry develop sans Dumbledore.
Slughorn...what a slimey guy! When they gave the description, I literally was sick to my stomach. But, I guess in a way he is admirable for all of his networking abilities...in a way.
The relationships, like whoa! Harry and Ginny? I really thought it was never going to happen! The pushing away thing, very admirable...but what an answer to hear! I mean, how can you complain about something like that? Look Ginny, I love you and all, but I have to save the wizarding world or die trying. You can't quite say no to that!
Hermoine and Ron...gah, just go ahead and get on with it!
Tonks and Lupin. Ohhh, it was cute and I was totally rooting for Tonks. Us Lupins can surely be stupid 90% of the time.
So much more to disguss. But my eyes are blurry from reading...alas...*cries for Dumbledore*
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Post by Sphi on Jul 18, 2005 11:57:15 GMT -5
*still sad about Dumbledore *
Calantha, the quote you were talking about: "I am not worried, Harry," said Dumbledore, his voice a little stronger despite the freezing water. "I am with you." I loved that line...it made me cry, along with a million other parts.
Did Slughorn remind anyone else of Lockhart? I had that impression all throughout his Slug Club parties.
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Calantha
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My name is Luck, this is my song, I happened by when you were gone
Posts: 4,493
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Post by Calantha on Jul 18, 2005 12:11:33 GMT -5
Yes. He did remind me of Lockhart. Only a little bit better and that was simply because Slughorn was at least useful. Bah.
Yeah, that's the quote SP! It caught me off guard and the reader really saw the weakness of Dumbledore. Gah. It still gets me.
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Post by hermoine on Jul 18, 2005 12:17:46 GMT -5
Did Slughorn remind anyone else of Lockhart? I had that impression all throughout his Slug Club parties. I thought so too!! You know how he uses others he met along the way?
I don't think I've said this but I loved Phlegm, as a nickname for Fleur. And Fred and George's shop was absolutely stunning!
*squee* I saw the reading JK gave at Edinburgh castle, and she read that same chapter. I had never heard her speak before.
This just came to mind too! You know the chapter The Cave, where Harry sees bodies in the lake? And he saw a hand at one point. Did anyone get the suspicion it was Pettigrew's hand? Marshes of the dead anyone?
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[ Wiz ]
Gryffindor House Member
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Post by [ Wiz ] on Jul 18, 2005 12:24:30 GMT -5
Calantha, the quote you were talking about: "I am not worried, Harry," said Dumbledore, his voice a little stronger despite the freezing water. "I am with you." I loved that line...it made me cry, along with a million other parts.
I've just been reminded of that quote, I was like "What the hell?", I reread the whole page again to make sure and then I checked with friends to make sure it wasn't a printing mistake, it was one of the most shocking parts of the book for me.
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Post by Rue on Jul 18, 2005 12:48:34 GMT -5
If Regulus did steal the locket, would he have had help? Rubes, I was thinking that same thing about R.A.B. needing help to steal the locket. Even Dumbledore needed a second wizard to help him swallow the potion, so wouldn't other wizards or witches also need a second person? And if Voldemort ever did figure out that R.A.B. had taken one of his horcruxes, could he have discovered the other person and murder him or her also?
I was also really shocked when Dumbledore said he wasn't worried because he was with Harry. It seemed like Harry had been really annoyed earlier in the night when Dumbledore had told him that his greatest power was the ability to love... so by telling Harry that he fully trusted him to get him safely back to the castle, Harry saw that Dumbledore trusted his physical and mental abilities as well as his emotional ones...
Also, the way Harry broke off his relationship with Ginny made sense and it didn't all at the same time. Harry knows that he's a much bigger target for Voldemort than the average wizard, so I can understand why he didn't want to put anyone he cared about in a dangerous position. But, he's doing the opposite of what everyone did a few decades ago when they were eloping left and right because they didn't know how much time they'd have together. I guess the difference is that instead of trying to rush relationships because of a fear of death, Harry instead puts them off because he's thoroughly convinced that he'll murder Voldemort (or die trying) and if he survives then the biggest threat will be gone and it'll be safe enough for him to go on having a relationship with Ginny...
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Post by Sphi on Jul 18, 2005 13:21:54 GMT -5
Oh, Rue, I didn't think of that! Yeah, Dumbledore specifically noticed that the cave was probably meant to be entered by two people, didn't he? So who was the other person that went in with Regulus? I still feel like only Sirius would be willing to do something so daring and downright terrifying, but that doesn't seem possible.
The whole cave scene was absolute pathos. I've never seen Dumbledore so weak and almost helpless... It seems that from that scene on, Harry started to realize how important his own role was, and that he would have to manage on his own.
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Post by Rubes on Jul 18, 2005 18:22:58 GMT -5
"I am not worried, Harry," said Dumbledore, his voice a little stronger despite the freezing water. "I am with you." Still waiting for "....at the end of all things...."
Well, I only ask if there was a second wizard or witch, because Harry's going to have oodles of fun trying to find the locket if Regulus didn't destroy it, but hid it away safely instead
Did Regulus have a parent, or uncle/aunt with a name starting with A? I don't have a copy of the Black family tree.
By the way, was Sirius disowned by the Blacks? And if he was, does that mean that Regulus would have owned any Black possessions? The house, locket and all that fun stuff.
I don't think Harry is an Horcrux for Volde. As I understand it, Volde was trying to kill Harry to make his final Horcrux. Which means, Volde must have been carrying the thing he wanted to Horcrux when he went to Godric's Hollow. (I got the impression that Volde needed to be touching the object he wanted to Horcrux; The diary, locket, snake all seem holdable).
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Lucius
1st Year
I am the very model of a modern major general
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Post by Lucius on Jul 18, 2005 21:42:54 GMT -5
Well, this is all well and good but how do we know that 2 people WAS completely necessary, perhaps the second time it was, but Voldemort had made himself the boat for one (we assume its for him to get to the locket, otherwise whats the point in basically giving whoever sets foot inside a helping hand across the water). As far as we know whoever it was that got the original locket (I just dont think that it is regalus black, I think a new character will be introduced) made the potion extra strong (and we have to remember it WAS a potion not a curse, which means voldemort would have to drink it and i doubt he would have sent the death eaters to get it and risk them knowing his weakness)
I also think that dumbledore is definatly dead, it was the best way J.K Rowling could have truely showed how blatantly evil Snape was, there is nothing she could have made him do that would have been a more evil act, I mean, killing the person that helped you for so long, kept you out of azkaban, gave you a job, was the ONLY person who trusted you, and you kill him in cold blood when he is defenceless and pleading. Thats some evil stuff right there.
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Post by Rue on Jul 18, 2005 23:01:46 GMT -5
My sister and I were talking about whether one or two people were needed to get to the horcrux, and I also said that R.A.B. could have replaced the (potentially harmless) potion Voldemort left for himself with a potion that would weaken Voldemort when he drank it. But my sister thought that was unlikely because of how seamlessly the potion fit into its surroundings. As Harry figured out, the potion was made so that the only way the drinker could survive would be to take the water out of the lake. It's pretty unlikely that R.A.B. could alter the potion but still keep that component. Also, Voldemort wouldn't mind needing a second person because he could just bring some random muggle or death eater with him and force them to drink the potion, then either kill them or modify their memories... So, even though the boat was really small, I still think that two people had to go to the center in order to retrieve the necklace; and having to have two people would be an added protection because no one who went alone would be able to get the necklace by themselves.
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Lucius
1st Year
I am the very model of a modern major general
Posts: 47
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Post by Lucius on Jul 19, 2005 7:43:11 GMT -5
I suppose your right there...hmm....anyway I still think that Regalus Black wasn't the one who discovered the horcrux...I mean maybe Amelia Bones was the culprit? Maybe her first name isnt amelia and like Tonks she prefers her last/middle name? I don't think this is the case at all but im proving a point, its stupid to jump to conclusions now when the answers wont be found till between 2007-10...
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Post by Sphi on Jul 19, 2005 8:41:51 GMT -5
I don't think it would be jumping to a conclusion to predict that R.A.B. was Regulus Black, and I certainly wouldn't call it "stupid." I'm sure this is exactly what Rowling wants readers to do after each of the books, to look back and make predictions. Anyways, if R.A.B. was able to replace the potion at all after switching the lockets, wouldn't he have been extremely clever at potion-making in the first place? So then he might've decided to create a stronger potion, thinking that it might weaken Voldemort at some point...we can't completely rule that out.
I still can't accept that Snape is completely evil. Dumbledore just could never be that wrong about a person... the more I think about it, the more I believe it's true that Dumbledore and Snape made the agreement beforehand.
Another thing that caught my attention as I was reading was Neville's new wand. Did anyone else notice it? It has a unicorn tale core... Of course, that would be going back to the old theory, which may or may not play out at all.
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Post by hermoine on Jul 19, 2005 10:23:31 GMT -5
Well, this is all well and good but how do we know that 2 people WAS completely necessary, perhaps the second time it was, but Voldemort had made himself the boat for one (we assume its for him to get to the locket, otherwise whats the point in basically giving whoever sets foot inside a helping hand across the water). As far as we know whoever it was that got the original locket (I just dont think that it is regalus black, I think a new character will be introduced) made the potion extra strong (and we have to remember it WAS a potion not a curse, which means voldemort would have to drink it and i doubt he would have sent the death eaters to get it and risk them knowing his weakness) That triggered a thought in this theory-loving head of mine. Dumbledore did say the cave was meant to be entered by 2 people. I think Voldemort had entered the cave alone with the locket already having become a horcrux. Now we know that a horcrux is a part of someone's soul, so it's like a different entity, another person. But the boat was made for one person, or so it seemed to be? Why, because the locket doesn't exactly take the space of a person does it? So when, if assuming R.A.B. is Regulus, Regulus went to the cave, he may have been accompanied by someone else, but, seeing how he probably did not have the power Dumbledore possessed, he died after drinking the potion, leaving Regulus to take the horcrux. Another thought which has come to mind just now. While reading, I did get the impression that the potion would keep refilling if you stopped drinking or something, or even after taking the locket. Now, if the person with Regulus died, I don't know if Regulus would be the type of person to carry him/her with him back again. So what does he do? He leaves him/her there. Either he throws him/her in the water, or the Inferi grab him/her and plunge the dead body down with them.
Could it be, that the dead people Harry saw in the water, which then we learned were Inferi, are actually people who had tried to retrieve the locket but failed?
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