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Post by Andy Bolton ... Returneth on Jul 21, 2005 8:08:16 GMT -5
Two thoughts. The second may be worth investigating.
One: Re-read Dumbledores death scene and really noticed the dramatic change in Dumbledore when Snape arrived. He first seems to even joke about old age, but then ...
Something isn't...right about that bit. Exactly, what is he pleading for? I have come to the conclusion that either this had been arranged - if the time came, Snape would kill Dumbledore in order to keep a spy in the Death Eaters. Alternatively, perhaps a prophecy was made that Snape was not aware of? Possibly that at your darkest hour one of your most trusted friends (is friends the right word?) will kill you. Dumbledore is human, and I believe he would of feared death. Knowing there is nothing else that can be done in that situation, you plead and beg for your life
Two: This is just an idea I had a moment ago. Search for evidence that proves Harry is/is not a Horcrux (I believe he possible could be). I was thinking about the ring, which (unless I am totally mistaken) is a Horcrux. Notice how the ring has a break in it? Was it mentioned hpw the ring was broken? Do any of the other Horcruxes have any breaks in it? The diary is the only one we know of right now, right? Does anyone recall any distinguishing features about it, such as a large rip in the cover or something (my memory sucks... I have to reread all the books)?
I say this because the ring on the bind of HBP has a nice scar shaped break in it. A possible clue? I don't know, just throwing ideas around.
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Post by Lianne on Jul 21, 2005 12:16:34 GMT -5
his portrait is there though will that not be of any use to harrya nd the OOtP??
hes not all gone in that way...
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Post by Sphi on Jul 21, 2005 13:47:50 GMT -5
Wiz, it's highly doubtful that Dumbledore will come back as a ghost. I don't think this question has ever been answered for sure, but most people assume now that people only choose to become ghosts if they feel empty or regretful about something in their life. Something like that, anyways. And Dumbledore just doesn't seem like the person who would regret how his life went. "After all, to the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure."
Andy, I don't know about that scar-shaped crack on the ring (do you have the UK edition?), but didn't the book say that Marvolo's ring was cracked because Dumbledore destroyed it, which is why his hand was scorched?
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Post by Andy Bolton ... Returneth on Jul 21, 2005 20:14:53 GMT -5
I thought about that in the shower this morning. I was late last night when I came up with that reasoning! Gah! I'll have to read it again. I have a bad memory so I forgot what happens already!
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Post by Lianne on Jul 21, 2005 23:30:04 GMT -5
the book was brilliant thouhg. an awesome piece of work. i loved it. i think it is my new fave.
i still want to know what dumbledore was talking about while taking the potion.
and i dont think he will comeback as a ghost either.
i miss him.
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AlderadDangarian
1st Year
All things are divisible by, multiples of, or are somehow directly or indirectly related to the #5!
Posts: 65
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Post by AlderadDangarian on Jul 22, 2005 21:03:21 GMT -5
If Regulus is alive, then how could 12 Grimwald Place be given to Harry? Wouldn't it go to him instead?
Kreacher would not listen to him either. Unless, Harry is supposed to think that it was left to him. But Snape stated that he could not tell the Dark Lord where the headquarters of OotP is...Hmmm.
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Lucius
1st Year
I am the very model of a modern major general
Posts: 47
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Post by Lucius on Jul 23, 2005 8:41:06 GMT -5
I think that dumbledore was pleading because even at the very end, he still didnt want to believe snape was completely evil, he knew snape wasnt as weak minded as malfoy, and simply trying to convince him wasnt going to cut it. So he pleaded for his life, because he knew it was now that harry needed his wisdom and power more than ever with the search for the horcruxes. Dumbledore wouldn't normally plead for his life, but in the situation he was in he wasnt going to chatter confidently with the person who had betrayed his trust of over 17 years.
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Calavera Diablos
Ravenclaw Alumni
Draws grown men wearing underpants outside their trousers
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Calavera Diablos on Jul 23, 2005 9:31:58 GMT -5
the book was brilliant thouhg. an awesome piece of work. i loved it. i think it is my new fave.
i still want to know what dumbledore was talking about while taking the potion.
and i dont think he will comeback as a ghost either.
i miss him. His portrait is on the wall of the Headmaster's Office though. We all know how talkative the canvases get in the HP Universe.
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Post by moira on Jul 23, 2005 16:39:21 GMT -5
I don't believe Dumbledore was pleading for his life. His actions with harry and what he told him when going to find the Horcruxes was that Dumbledore was willing to die before Harry did, that his life wasn't as important. That kind of characteristic trait in someone doesn't change in a matter of hours. Dumbledore has faced death plenty of times, his last moments on the tower wouldn't have been enough to make him change and plead for his life.
Perhaps the pleading in his voice upon finding Snape was a pleading of saying "don't mess up and ruin everything." I believe Dumbledore's character is one who is willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good.
And I don't believe that Snape is truly evil. I'm not saying that out of trying to be naive or anything, but from a writer's point of view - JK Rowling doesn't just flat out let you know when someone's gone evil. In the first book, she led you to believe it was Snape who was the perpetrator the entire time all the way up to the end when you realized it was someone else the entire time. She leads you on, likes to make you think a certain way and then surprises you by not giving you what you expected.
I don't think Snape is completely on the side of Voldemort. It makes things too clean cut, and JK Rowling doesn't write like that. I think she is still going to lay out surprises for us to discover about him.
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Post by Lianne on Jul 23, 2005 22:14:20 GMT -5
i think that snape plays a real importaant part for the order, and dumble dore knew about the unbreakable vow and that he was saying please dont chicken out snape. because if snape didnt do it then snape would die right?
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[ Wiz ]
Gryffindor House Member
Posts: 529
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Post by [ Wiz ] on Jul 24, 2005 11:28:04 GMT -5
OF COURSE!?!?!?! Remember in OOTP when Harry was cleaning that room in Grimmauld Place
Could that be...........the horcrux?
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Post by Nie on Jul 25, 2005 5:05:26 GMT -5
I definately think we're going to have to accpet that Dumbledore is gone. Rowling likes to remind us that magic can't do anything you want and that life is full of loss, whether we like it or not and just one of those things we have to accept. Besides, Harry said it perfectly: "He will only be gone from the school when none here are loyal to him,". I think I'm more in shock over Dumbledore's killer than Dumbledore's actual death. Snape... Severus Snape. I'm finding it hard to stomach that he would have betrayed Dumbledore's trust. I'm trying to decide whether Dumbledore pleading with Severus before he was killed was Dumbledore pleading for his life, or pleading for Severus to kill him then because he'd told Severus it may be required of him. Dumbledore already seemed to have accepted he'd probably die in the search for Voldemort's Horcruxes, and knew that Harry was crucial to Voldemort's ulimate destruction coming about. Does anyone else think it possible that Dumbledore had previously made Severus swear to kill him if a situation serious enough arose? For example, saving one of their students from committing a murder at such a young age? I was under the impression that Dumbledore was negotiating Draco out of killing him not for the sake of his own life, but because Draco is young and innocent and Dumbledore didn't want to lose such a young student to the Dark Arts. Draco was, after all, threatened with his own death and the death of his parents. He wasn't trying to kill Dumbledore because he really wanted it, because he'd been given orders. The fact that Draco obviously didn't want to kill anyone has given me hope that one of my old theories may in fact be true: that Draco will end up coming round and joining the forces against Voldemort. He's a kid that up until now hasn't really known any better because he was raised by two Death Eaters that have obviously openly showed him their interest in the Dark Arts and told him from day one that Muggle born witches and wizards are far below him in stature. It's not really his fault that he turned out to be the way he is. I don't think I agree with the theory that Harry is a Horcrux. Why would Voldemort make a Horcrux of someone that he quite obviously wants dead? His wand, or more likely that of someone notable that he killed, quite feasable. But making a person a Horcrux doesn't quite seem to be Voldemort's style. He doesn't like to keep people close to him. Any thoughts?
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Post by KoNeko on Jul 25, 2005 6:32:20 GMT -5
About Harry being the Horcrux, I've been thinking about that too. If he was a horcrux then at least Voldemort would know that there would be several people protecting him... it would also explain the "Neither one will survive while the other one lives" or whatever the line was... because they're both part of the same then they can exist independently of each other. It might also explain the wand choice as well. What I want to know now is if someone puts part of their soul into a horcrux, if they can retrieve it and piece toghether their soul again later.
To be honest, I have to admit that I didn't really like this book that much. It's like the quality of the writing has gone down a lot in the last couple of books, so that even within the realm of the wizarding world it's just... so fanciful. Harry has, in the last three years seen three people close to him die, and he still seems to be able to function. I don't know, there is just something really ridiculous and unrealistic for my liking.
I'm really glad that Draco didn't kill Dumbledore. I didn't think he was... I don't know, fitting. But Snape... I just didn't know how far to expect that. But the last chapter was really sad (up until the last couple of paragraphs, which I thought was an unsatisfactory ending!) But the whole funeral and how it was set out made me cry.
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Post by guinevere on Jul 25, 2005 14:55:12 GMT -5
thoughts from myself and friends who have finished #6: 1. Is Dumblebore dead? I cannot believe this man would have begged for his life in that manner. 2.What was in the potion he drank earlier? Did he have a forewarning? Perhaps Professor Trelawny made a third correct prediction.. 3.Could Snape have used one of Fred and George's fake wands? 4.We don't know what was wrapped in the purple robe that Hagrid carried at the funeral. 5. JKR on her site, said Dumbledore's patronus was the phoenix and Harry thought he saw one rise at the end of the funeral. 6. In book 3, the phoenix who rescued Harry and the others--could that have been Dumbledore? 7. Hagrid said "I"ve done it, Professor....m-moved him" moved him where?..and remember a Death Eater died that night also--.. 8.Why did Dumbledore trust Snape? 8. And Bill, poor Bill? Will he become a werewolf? 9. Harry will return to Hogwarts. Didn't JKR say the 7 books were about his 7 years at the school?
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dianella
Slytherin House Member
My mother told me to mend my wicked ways. But I never could sew...
Posts: 1,811
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Post by dianella on Jul 25, 2005 16:55:57 GMT -5
HI all, been a while since I've posted...
On the RAB as Regulus Black - I haven't read all 500 posts in this topic so this may have already been stated, BUT...in the Leaky Cauldron interview, JK pretty much confirmed that RAB is Regulus. Also if you go back to the 5th book, when they are cleaning out Grimauld place, they come across a large heavy locket that no one can open. I'm SURE this is the horcurx...
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